Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Is DeFi Dead? What's the next move?
Recorded: Aug. 26, 2026 Duration: 1:39:55Space Recording
Full Transcription
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
All right. Just wait for this space to kick off. Wait
for it to fill up a little bit. Pretty hot topics. Ooh. Wait for it to fill up a little
bit. Uh. Pretty. Mute that. Mute that business. Um. What up, Bear Jew? Bear Jew in the house.
Here we go. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. All right. It's been a minute. Yeah, man, it has been.
It has been a minute. You know, there's there's a lot to cover. I wish it wasn't
under these circumstances, but you know, I mean, I think we can cover more than just the pack
a swap business. You know. Absolutely. Yeah, maybe we just so everybody.
While we wait for this thing to fill up, just retweet out the space. You know,
it's important for the algorithm, and then we'll kick stuff off. I think it. Oh,
it is being recorded, so you know that's that's good. So then people, yes,
and then just people can just listen in, like you know, whenever they want. Yeah,
and I think a good talking point that you have that you talked about in the in your
Dagnation Telegram, right? I think it is worth having a discussion about. You know,
is it even worth having a Dex? I mean, I think that's a that's that's a that's
an interesting talking point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, let's just let's just kick it off.
I mean, let's just dive right into that, like as as a as a starting point. You know,
I pointed out this fact a couple of days ago, just about the broader DeFi market.
That I don't think so. It's easy to get caught up into this bubble that you're in, you know,
thinking that everything is, you know, the most important thing. But when you zoom out
and you actually look at the data, you you realize that not only is crypto itself
pretty insignificant, but when you take it even to like and you put crypto under a microscope
and you look at like DeFi, for example. So I looked at DeFiLlama. It has the the stats of
of everything. And the the DeFi aspect of of blockchain is is going down, and it
and it shows no signs of coming back up. So then, and there's and there's a lot to be said by
by just that, right? So there's a lot of different reasons, like one of which is
all the increasing pressure on regulation and KYC. And so then, where does that fit in to to DeFi?
Because the whole thing, um, up until just recently, is You know, crypto's been like
totally anonymous, right? And it's been kind of like a playground for for scammers. Absolutely,
and you know, I when I think about dexes in general, right? A lot of dexes, right?
They have all of these, like every feature imaginable, right? Like yield farms, exotic pools,
leverage, derivatives, et cetera, et cetera, right? And and you don't necessarily need
because when I think about a dex, for example, for the constellation ecosystem, right?
I don't I don't think you necessarily need to chase every one of those DeFi features. I mean,
I think it would be okay personally to have something that's boring, secure, liquid, you know,
and and easy to use, especially because. I do think that constellation needs things like,
especially needs exchange infrastructure. I don't think it necessarily, you know,
obviously needs a huge standalone DeFi business, but I think there's a case to justify at
least having one that is boring and simplistic in nature. Yeah, I mean, it's it's already there,
right? I mean, like we we already have one, so there's no use to like totally can it and abandon it.
But then you know goes to the question like, how much, uh, you know, time and and um, you know,
capital do you want to put into something that You know, may or may not be used that much. Yeah,
yeah, no, and then, then I think that's a that's another great point. I think you hit the the nail
on the head there. I mean, yeah, I mean, you're exactly right, right? There's there's no sense
in doing doing anything with it now. It's already there. But yeah, I think I think you do have to be
wise about how much capital and manpower you allocate to it for sure. All right,
so we get we get we get a couple more people in here. Just please retweet out the space.
Easiest thing to do is that purple pill down at the bottom. Leave a reply if you don't want to come
up. I mean, I see Nemo down in there. He comes up every once in a while. I don't know
where you're at. If you had any thoughts or questions, but yeah, so that purple pill,
reshare out the space. Leave a reply. Getting into like the topic at hand,
I guess this you know this exploit that was on Packer Swap. So I think that Alex himself did
a pretty good job at explaining it, and without going into like too much detail, you know,
this was you know a super sophisticated thing, and the the guy or whoever it was that found
the exploit, like had to go super deep down into the fucking underbelly of the code to find like
one. Little exploit, and that exploit is basically only applicable if you have like the L zero
and the L one currency aspect of it,
and that's why like PAXSWAP itself was the only one that was affected.
Yeah, and that and that makes a lot of sense. It was more specifically to do. With, yeah, just the,
um, like pack a swap, like Metagraph, it sounds like itself, which was, you know,
I think that's a really good point to highlight too, because I know there was a lot of people, um,
asking about if it had anything to do with, you know, uh, the hypergraph itself, which, you know,
again, important point to highlight. No, nothing there was compromised. Yeah,
nothing about the the core protocol itself was compromised or was even in in jeopardy. I mean, it.
I mean, there's no way to sugarcoat it. I mean, the the whole situation sucks, right? Um.
But you know the the the team, you know they they found that particular exploit and they fixed it.
And the big takeaway, in my opinion, is, you know they they didn't have to like refund
everybody's money, but you know they they're going to. So anybody that participated. In the dex,
you know they have snapshots of exactly, you know, before the the this thing happened,
and then after. So they have everybody's everybody's addresses. They know everybody's balances
there, and you know, there's just it. Whenever they update it, you're just going to have whatever
you had before. You're just going to have that back. So there's there's nothing that you need to do.
Um. Right. So in in essence, you didn't really lose anything. Yeah no no I mean I mean you're
exactly right it was really just more of anything it was just you know it was a little bit
of a time sink that got everybody's nervous system ramped up and now everything's back
to normal it's fine and and you know what what really sucks about us all about it all is
that I you know I don't think it could have come at a worse time because of just all the momentum
that we've been seeing lately between AI AI and and constellation right with Gate AI
what's happening with Door like everything that's been going on
like I don't this couldn't have happened at like the worst time at a worst time yeah no you're
you're exactly right momentum was was picking up we were starting to get some headwind from the
From the broader, you know, liquidity pump that was happening in Bitcoin and whatnot, and then
and then this just like deflated everything. So it was just like, yeah,
it was like this was the worst time. I mean, not that there's any good time for this,
but then the other thing that I guess not that, not that it's ever like good for any of this for any
for any of this stuff to happen. But it but it's interesting. Like if you think about like Bitcoin
and Ethereum, like those networks are. Subjected to attacks, you know,
probably thousands of times a day, right? And I mean, you you hear about exploits all the time,
and and it's not just those two. Recently, just in the past couple of months, you've had Hedera,
you've had Cardano, you've had Layer Zero. So these are all like massive networks.
They were all they were they have all been exploited by by DeFi stuff,
and this network Constellation has never really been like. Stress tested, if you will,
if if you want, like if that's even like a good term to like put it right. And this
and and this actually could have been way worse, right? Um, and so I, I mean, I guess,
I guess it's one thing to be said that like, hey, like somebody's paying attention to us
like enough to try to try to hack it, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and you know what cracks me up is
like, so every time you know, I was going back today and just in my. Small amounts of free time that
I had, you know, I was going back and looking through other incidents that we've had within
this ecosystem, and the and the funny thing is, is you know, we've had a lot of haters, fudsters,
whatever you want to call them, I don't really care, come out and talk about
how you know for a project that emphasizes security, blah blah blah blah blah. You know,
you hear that all the time, and what's so funny to me is when you go back
and look at all of these incidents, not a single one
has ever involved the actual like protocol itself, right? It was always related.
Like this one is related to something within the Pegasus web meta graph, not with HTTP.
I know that there was some. Folks that lost their, you know, that lost their tokens
from their wallets, and people were talking. Even I, I know there was the the founder, a while,
a long time ago, a few years ago, right, about someone that lost the tokens in their wallet.
But again, none of it, none of it has honestly ever come down to something being wrong
with the protocol itself. It was always something else, like a human error or something like that.
Um, so it was just, I don't know, that was a funny thing that I was just thinking about today.
It's never ever involved the protocol. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this had nothing to do with
the the core protocol itself. And then if you just look at DeFi as an example, anyway, right?
You're you're adding something else like on top of the the infrastructure.
And so anytime you do that, you know, you're just giving more. I don't know if weak points is is
the right word, but I mean, you you can see like all of these other networks, like Cadera, right?
So they had their Network their DeFi like a DeFi aspect of it breached like nine million dollars.
Same thing with Cardano. I think it was second Fi. Even Layer Zero, right? I mean,
these were all big, huge networks with. Way bigger teams than than constellation,
and they they were affected. But again, the same thing. Like the core protocols of each one
of those networks wasn't affected. It was just the DeFi aspect of it was subjected to
vulnerabilities, and people exploited those vulnerabilities. Yeah, there's there's so many exploits
in general across you know across DeFi. Like I think about like what was it the the Hyperliquid
like jelly jelly exploitation, and in I think that was in 2025. That was like Ten or twelve million,
or some of that lost. I mean, shoot, look at Balancer in November 2025. That was a what, a hundred
and twenty-plus million-dollar, you know, exploit. So I mean, these things happen in all
across indexes, right? And I think it goes back to a point. I know that you've said this a hundred
and one million times, and I know it's a, it's, it's, and it's not just in crypto.
Like this is across crypto, stocks, forex. I mean, I've been, I've been involved in the markets for
about nine years now, and I've traded various markets, you know, from Forex to you know to stock to
futures and so forth and again never ever put in you know more than you're willing to lose
I mean there these there are risks that happen and and you know I I know
that people don't like to hear that that that doesn't take away the sting of losing money
and and in this case nobody lost any money which is great but you know I think that's also
a really good rule to highlight for everyone is you know never put in more than you're
willing to lose don't put that rent check in yeah yeah I mean I know I like whatever somebody's
just uh completely blunt you know it may seem like rude or crude. But you know it's it's just
a fact, you know, and it's like, look, I I lost money in this in this pack a swap thing.
Like I I lost. I mean, we're getting it back now, so I mean, I guess I didn't really,
but I didn't know that back when this first happened. You know, I was just accepting
the the the swift kick in the nuts that the sub the substantial amount that I had provided liquidity
to. To that pool was just gone, and I was never going to get it back. And I just accepted that loss,
right? Because I because I never really, in my mind, I never really counted that as, uh, you know,
as as anything, right? It's just it was just like play money, like my whole investment history. Um,
I have only taken profits from one investment, and then moved it to another investment.
So essentially, if all of my investments got wiped out to zero.
I I essentially wouldn't have really lost anything, right? You know, you know I could sit there
and cry about, um, you know the the the you know the the dollar the dollar value amount
that that was there, like like in my ads like my ads thing. You know, I got I got scammed with
with my ads tokens, and yeah, yeah, and I and I lost at the time. It was something like
seventy thousand dollars, and it was like fuck. You know, that was that NFT, the the fake NFT thing.
Yeah, and the thing it looked, you know, super legit. See, John John Ryan wants this guy.
Do we roll the dice? Is this guy going to be fun? I don't know. My palms are already sweating,
but let's do it. But yeah, I mean, everything looked looked. It was, you know,
there was a legitimate campaign. I mean, I don't want to get off the rails here, but it's it's like.
You know, shit happens. Is essentially, you know, yeah, shit. Shit happens,
but like everything that I have, you know, I've invested from the very beginning with a money
I wasn't afraid to lose, and then B, I just carried profit from one investment
to another investment. So I'm really not out anything. Yeah, and and really quick, like you know. I,
whenever things like this happen, right? Yeah, you're going to see a lot of negativity.
But one of the things I like to try to do, and this this is something relatively recent,
I started trying doing this in my own life, like the last six plus months.
So this is why I'm throwing this out there, recommending it. Like, we can sit here
and and pardon my French, but we can piss and moan about all the negative, you know,
all the negative stuff that comes from this, or how people are perceiving it, or we can take,
you know, take a step back and start having a solutions-oriented mindset. Because here's the thing,
it's clear that somebody did a lot of work, right, to to exploit this, and they most likely used AI.
And on the flip side of that, you can use AI for good. Like you can turn around and You could.
This is just an idea I'm throwing out there. Somebody could go along and build bots
if they wanted to, a whole bot team to figure out, you know, to find things for any project,
any of these, any exploits or anything like that, and turn them into bug bounties,
or turn them into the company, or you know, do good with it too. That's the flip side of it.
Is somebody can can instead of sitting around and bitching, moaning, and complaining
and all this kind of stuff, you can take action and you can build something around it,
and you can you can help. You know that that's something else I think about too. All right, so John,
we got you up here. What's up, bro? I mean, obviously, I don't think this guy's a super troll
because he would have interrupted you. What's up, bro? No, no, no, I don't. I used to hold
DYG ages ago, actually, but I sold it all. That's not a criticism of anyone here.
I sold it after the last bull run, which feels like about a hundred years ago now. You know,
but yeah, and I've only just actually come back to crypto. In the last couple of weeks, actually,
so I was just starting to follow people again, you know. Yeah, I mean now's a now's a good time.
I mean, we've basically not just for DAG. I mean, just the whole market has pretty much bottomed,
and yeah, I'm such a bitch just chasing now when it comes back good, you know. So what?
What's the deal with DAG? It's changed a lot, obviously, since like a couple of years ago. Yeah,
price means nothing really at the moment because sure the world's fucked. But is it? Yeah, I mean,
is it a good investment? Genuinely, I don't mean that as a troll. Because no, no, no, no. I mean,
so honestly, I mean. Not you know I mean just take what I say with a grain of salt because you know
there's some yeah because there yeah because there's the because there's some people
who you know don't respect my opinion because like this is the one network that I talk about more
than anything else but any but yeah but but anybody that's been following me knows
why I've been like super bullish about this because this this fits right in my wheelhouse
of everything that I believe we're going to you know I found this company
because I was pitching Palantir to a group of people. Before Palantir IPOed,
so to answer your question, like what's what's new with DAG? The the biggest thing,
the biggest differentiator between Constellation and pretty much every other network
out there right now is it's part of a publicly traded company. So they got me deported,
was this the AI company? Yeah, so they got acquired back in like earlier this year, and it's
and it's a holding company. So just You know, think Berkshire Hathaway and like what he does, right?
So he buys, you know, a bunch of companies, and then you know they they roll it up into like a,
you know, a big, a big entity, and then that's that's the stock, and that's essentially
like the dumbed down version of what AI holding. You're not seeing the vast potential, obviously.
You know, well, just just very quickly though, and this and you probably hear this all the time,
but I remember back in the day, the big thing was obviously it was. It had validity
because of you know being used by the air force things like that. But the counter arguments that was
they weren't using you know the same tag we were, and I see people just getting back into it saying,
"Nothing ever came of that" and things like that. Like, is it just a case that it'll be amazing? No,
this is just your opinion. Will it be amazing? But maybe not tangibly represented by the price.
And is it just a case that there's too many tokens for it to ever really be like a hundred dollars
and things like that? And bear in mind, whatever your answer is, Dag, I'm I'm holding
you responsible if I go bankrupt. Yeah, so yeah, so there is there there's a lot to unpack there.
So I mean, yes, the, um. The The core protocol itself, the the technology,
the hypergraph transfer protocol, was being used by the the U.S. Military. There is plenty. I mean,
I mean, I I have I have posted so much evidence of that. It's even in the S one the S one filings
with the SEC, right, where you can see that they got money from from the government. Um,
now from From like right now, what what's being done with the government? I mean, yeah,
I don't know how much speculation you know you you want to get into, right?
But Diggs was just on camera. With the Maryland Blockchain Association covering all of this stuff,
covering the covering the work with the the the military, Iron Spider and all that stuff,
and he he showcased this demo about GPS spoofing and how the the hypergraph technology
can be used to like prevent GPS spoofing. Um. And and he's and yeah, and so he's he's gone on
camera. He's gone on record more than once saying that the government is still very very interested
in in this stuff. So I mean, take that. With, yeah, yeah, with whatever you want to say, right?
Do you do you think though? Sorry to interrupt. Do you think do you think it's um
like the the counter argument would be by now after like six years, it wouldn't be like
below a cent, you know? Like do you think just is it just the world we live in? Uh oh! So like,
what's what's it gonna take for this to like? Well, yeah, like my thinking is that there's
so many coins, you know. Plus, why supply versus demand is great. Like that's why Quant is so big,
and did so well, and still probably is good because, well, at least from my memory, back in the day,
there was only so many coins and had a lot less than DAG. Whereas DAG, just
how many coins does DAG have? Like, is it hundreds of millions that the you know public there,
whatever the the public can buy, you know, would take an awful lot to drive the price, you know.
Yeah, I mean, so there's there's different mechanisms, I guess, you know, that you could, uh,
you know, that that you could do to, um, like, would you buy all the DAG for us,
and then we can all be rich? No, but my, no, but my logic is that, and listen, for listen,
we we could all say it's going to go up and it'll go down tomorrow. You never know. But like,
I suppose the thinking is that, you know, for it to do well. It will either have to be major
to use by like these big corps, or it's gonna have to get a load of public traction
for people start buying in the masses. And you know, I don't know whether either.
And I'm not knocking it because I do think that it's it's great, and I you know I'm still interested
in it. But I was very hyped about it years years ago. I just don't know
whether either those two things are likely. And that's not to say that it's not great
and it won't change the world. I just think eventually, and you might be different.
You might be more altruistic and fair play if you are. But I think like most people deep down.
Do get into it at least a little bit selfishly, thinking, you know, I want bang for my buck,
and when's it going to happen? You know, so well, right? I mean, nobody invests in something that
they think is going to be a stinker, right? Yeah. At the end of the day,
everybody invests in something that they think is going to go up in value, right? And that just
and that just goes with you know with with stocks, right? And I think this is just my belief,
and I have said this so many times before, even before the big. Crypto crash. I I think eventually,
crypto is going to be, you know, kind of mirror traditional finance, and you know it won't be
as volatile. And you know, if you pick the right winners, right? If you zoom out,
you're you're always going to be ahead, yeah. Right, and then and then
and then I've said this plenty of times before about this network that that I think even even
before they they were acquired by the by this by this new company, and now that they're listed on
the Nasdaq, even before that. You know, I. You can search my profile and say,
and and just look under like, um, the biggest revenue generator or whatever. Like,
and I still firmly believe that. I think at the end of the day, Constellation is going to be one
of the largest revenue generators in in all of blockchain. Um, and and if you look,
and if you look at Door specifically, right. Like nobody's really paying attention to Door,
and if you look at the S one filings, like, and so like Door, I think was something
like thirty percent, or maybe even close to forty percent of the revenue that
Constellation was generating this entire time, which is yeah, which is fucking crazy. And then
year over year, what was driving up Door's revenue wasn't the physical selling of the of the devices
of the of the units of the Door units. It was actually the subscription, right?
The analytic subscription. Like people just aren't really like, you know, paying
enough attention to that stuff. And oh no, there's a lot of there's a lot of strengths to the bow.
Yeah, and and now Door has added like an AI layer to to their analytics subscription,
so it made their platform even better, right? So they already had arguably one of the best platforms
in the industry as far as like the the the foot traffic. Yeah. So it's it's obviously just about
how long it takes for that to the translate. Is there a bull run next year? Uh well yeah so
that I mean the the you know it's funny because it's about fifty fifty you get half of the mark half
of the people thinking that we're we're going to be entering a bull run
and then the other half of the people thinking uh we're we're not going to be yeah
and because it was supposed to be right yeah and I'm of the view that like
if you just kind of ignore the noise and and um stop trying to chase candles right if if you just
if you just if you just pick The the winners that that have already seen around the corner,
and you just and you just go with that, you're gonna come out ahead. I mean, it's oh yeah,
I mean tags a great investment right now. Like I was looking it up, and you can buy like I know
what is it like a hundred thousand coins for like would it be like I'm over in Europe for like maybe
like twelve hundred euro. You know? Yeah, I mean it's dude, it's like rock rock bottom prices.
I mean this is basically this is basically uh around the same price. That
that I entered in back in 2021. Yeah, and yeah, and if you look at my
when I first started posting about this network back in January of 2021,
when DAG was at point zero zero five, so even less than what it is now, right? You know, I said,
man, this is this is. This is going to be something, and then it went up to like you know
almost fifty cents, right? It did like an it yeah it did like an eighty x or something like that.
You remember? I remembered the the days where um you'd sit there at zero point zero zero,
and if it went even like zero point zero two from zero point zero one,
it'd be like we're all billionaires, you know? Yeah, and if yeah, and if you look at basically what
what the network is right now today versus what it was then, like if if you were just entering in,
right? If you were just being exposed to stuff, like there is way more. You know,
like meat on the bone now than there was than there was back then. Right. Just out of interest,
I used to hold, but I don't again. What happened to alchemy? Like the price, oh, the price.
Jesus Christ! Yeah. So. Yeah. So I mean, that was that was another like project that like on
surface. I mean, yeah. I mean, so I was on another station anymore. No, no, no, they're not.
But I mean, so like I was on another space a couple of months ago, just about like scams and stuff,
and like all these rugs. Yeah, well, no, no, no. It's not a scam, but I'm
I'm kind of going somewhere, and like I and and then people they were like saying
that like all these people that shield scams should be like, you know, taken out back
and fucking like shot. And it's like, well, you know, I mean, so yes, that there's probably some
of these people are for sure scammers, right? Yeah, one hundred percent scammers. But then, like,
some of these other people, um, you know. Maybe, and I, you know, I can only speak for myself,
but I'm just saying that maybe some people would like look at this investment and say, "Hey, look,
this is like this could be a good idea. This could have a lot of potential." And like for me,
and yes, I, I like shield the fuck out of alchemy because on if you if you just looked at the data
at the time, it seemed like a no brainer, right? So you you had advertising fraud,
which still blows my mind. It is the it is the second largest fraud committed in the world. I mean,
we we are talking like hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud just from advertising stuff.
And so then there was these guys from the advertising industry. They had all backgrounds
in advertising. Yeah, yeah. They figured out. Well, hey, look, we can eliminate that
with blockchain. And you know, not to get like too whatever about about their stuff,
but it it seemed like a no brainer. But how did the price go to on twelve?
I'm looking at it because zero point zero zero zero nine. Yeah, because so them like everybody else,
they just they just didn't get enough adoption, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean,
they so they touted all these like partnerships and all these. You know, customers and stuff,
but I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, they just they just couldn't get you know
enough enough buy-in. I mean, they tried everything. They even did like buybacks,
and so that's the other thing that too that that I kind of laugh at when people go, "Oh, well,
buybacks that'll that that solves everything." Constellation should just do a buyback program,
and it's like, okay, well, Alchemy did a buyback program, and look, look what good it did for them.
I even I've even made a post about other big networks, much bigger. Avalanche,
Avalanche has token buybacks. They even have a stock. Same thing with Tron. You know,
they they have a buyback program. Like it hasn't done shit for them because one of the core things
with both of those is there's really not enough network usage. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean,
buy buybacks are not the the silver bullet. No, I don't know how. Sorry,
I just went hot really quick too. I'm sorry about that, John. I didn't mean to cut you off. No,
fine. But the one thing I wanted to highlight too is, you know, going back to what Dagna was saying
when he said, when you stop chasing candles, you start zooming out. I think the,
in particular with constellation, one of the things you can do, because I don't remember
how how long ago you said you were, you had been in constellation. Number one,
if if you hadn't had a chance to look at the the metanomics that they that they did with that
they put out just a little while ago, a couple years ago. I would look into those,
but also like one of the big metrics. I think if if you want to keep your eye on on you know
this project and keep your eye on constellation and see if they're growing,
keep an eye on the snapshots because we have been steadily seeing snapshots increase over the lat
over the last you know several months, especially with the new products that it's releasing.
I I think Dagnam highlighted it the other day. What was the was it like
fifty four thousand snapshots a day or something like that? Yeah, yeah,
it was it it was about fifty. Fifty thousand, and yeah, and I think that you know that's going to
steadily increase as digital evidence and Gate AI gets gets used. So people tend to forget
that Gate AI uses digital evidence. So anytime people are using Gate AI,
you know it creates like a trail, an evidence trail on on digital evidence. Well,
that's pretty cool, yeah. And do they still do like the staking and everything,
or is that kind of way? No, staking is still there. So you can take your your DAG
and your Stargazer wallet and Go on the explorer and stake it on any one of the validators
or any one of the meta graphs and see what happens. Yeah. What about lattice? Did that go away?
Yeah. So, I tell you, sorry, just forget the. I'll tell you a story. Back in the day, I had about.
It turned out to be whatever I changed it to. I had chainlink, and I changed. I made.
I had profit on chainlink, and I changed this, and I had a choice, and I could put it into.
And this is how loyal I was to. Consolation. It would have been probably about a thousand quants,
and I would have gone from like maybe, maybe about six or seven euro of quants,
and it went up to like four hundred euro. And instead of taking a thousand quants,
I put it all into lattice. So that's my sad story. Yeah, is lattice gone forever? Lattice,
lattice is like a bribing thing now. In a bad way. Uh no I mean you just they bribe uh like people
to no it's no it's like it's like it's like a um so you use your um V E L T X your governance tokens
to um so they're like the biggest holders of of swap and then basically it's like
a a bribing platform so you take your tokens and um you use it to like point where most
of the rewards on the decks are gonna go to I mean. But you're better off.
You also get some rewards. There, there are some rewards you get. You get monthly with.
I'm trying to remember. Was it the not the DTM's, but you get it. There's like a percentage I think
that was coming from like the pools or whatever. And now people are earning like a little bit
of swap every month. And oh, yeah. I mean, it's it's. It. Dagnam's absolutely right.
It's a bribing platform that really was built in mind with having you know. Dozens, if not hundreds,
of metagraphs on the network. I, my personal, this is just my personal belief, and yeah,
I'll give you my same disclaimer, right? This isn't financial advice. Yeah.
But I do think personally, I'm like, with more metagraphs hitting the network and you know
more bribes than essentially being able to take place, I think then you would have lattice being
a much more flourishing platform, right? It would flourish, I think, a lot more.
But I think you need more metagraphs to see that happen. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Is um,
I know Wyatt left. And your man Matteo went. Are the rest of the team still there? As as far, yeah.
So, like, why it was the only one that that left? I mean, everybody, everybody else is. I mean,
I I don't know. Was there a reason that he left? You'd have to ask him. Your man Matteo,
he went as well, didn't he, or is he still there? Yeah, he's. He's not around anymore. Yeah. Well,
there you go. Um. Yeah. No, I just saw ads, and I was like, "The fuck, Jesus!
That used to be a thing." So, and did any of those? Yeah. Did any those companies ever make it?
Like, remember that company, GeoJam? That's gone, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
There' another company that's like. Um. Did they just? Yeah. Who these companies?
Was that just the common denominator? That it just wasn't. It's too early.
They couldn't last the pace. They had their own shit that happened, especially like GeoJam,
for example. That was a whole mess with. Yeah, that was a whole mess with uphold more than anything.
Than it had more so than anything to do with. The network, but one of the other,
but but I think you know a more positive story that spun off from that is BioFi, which I think,
Dadium, correct me if I'm wrong. They were part of was it the first flight?
I think it was the first flight, but they just launched their Metagraph on the mainnet. Wow, yeah,
yeah, yeah. BioBioFi was part of the very very first first cohort. Yeah,
the very first incubator program that that Constellation had. They they send
a very interesting block today. Yeah, and so I mean we'll just have to wait and see.
It's a very ambitious idea. I mean, I've always been like with them. It's kind of like hot and cold.
Like at first, like I was like super. I mean, I you could look at my post history. I mean,
I was like one of the first accounts to like post about them because it was like an incredible idea.
But then, you know, time went on and just nothing, nothing, nothing. Yeah.
But you know they're they're back. And they've deployed a Metagraph, so we have to give them
we have to give them props for that. But I guess the the TLDR with them is if they do what they say
that they're going to do, it it could be a big snapshot generator for for the network
because essentially what what they're doing is so they have not just mobile phones
but they have smartphones. Well, yeah, I said mobile phones already. Yeah, not not just smartphones,
but they have watches and and tablets that they're selling in Africa, and I think
they've already started to sell. So this don't like take what I say because I'm not 100 on this.
So they're in Africa, I do know that, and they've already sold phones in Africa.
We don't know how much. That's the other problem. We we just don't know how much.
But then they're also supposedly they they've either started selling or they're going to sell in in
South America. So essentially, what you're Have the potential here for is hundreds of I mean,
just depending on how many devices, right? Hundreds of millions of devices.
All being validated on the network, and so that's a lot of snapshots. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. So,
and I think it was the the last spaces that we did. That this was a few months ago. Um,
I remember we had done a spaces Dagnum and I with uh the I think it was the founder of Biofy,
and didn't they talk about? I think he talked about uh how many phones they had sold,
and it was something like a hundred thousand phones at that time. I think it was.
Do I have that right? Yeah. Some of that. Yeah, yeah. If I'm remembering top my head. Yeah, I mean,
and they make their own phones. They're not just selling into another phone. Yep, they make them.
No, they they make their own phone. It's uh the it's called the Phoenix phone,
and so it's like a low cost phone to try to compete with the the cheap Chinese phones. Wow. Um.
Yeah. So like. Yeah, I mean, so the mobile phone market is like a huge thing, especially worldwide,
like. Here in the in the U.S. Or like any developed country, it's either Apple or, you know,
like Samsung, right? But you know, in in developing countries, you know,
people can't fucking afford to pay a thousand dollars for a phone. And they're getting
more expensive, the iPhones and everything, and they're going to keep going, you know. Yeah,
but I mean, in this day and age, you need to. You need to have a phone. I mean, it's just yeah.
I mean, it's sometimes you're better off without one, but no, I get what you mean, you know.
So yeah, yeah. And so, like China, like absolutely sees the vacuum there,
and they've been going hardcore into these developing countries and just, you know.
Shitting out their uh their products and you know I mean I say shitting out like I mean not
that it's a bad thing because a lot of their pro a lot of their products are good like Huawei man
they dude they have like their their phone um I messed around with it
before it got like blacklisted from the U S like that phone is fucking amazing I mean they make
good shit right but I mean can you trust it No that's fair Do you think um Not to get
really political and stuff like that. Do you think if there are elections in America November
and then in two years' time, and Trump loses because they're big into their um crypto
and stuff like that, do you think that the Democrats won't be as pro crypto and it could put a break
and all that? Well, I mean, you can look at my post history. I mean, I've already made
it pretty pretty clear. Um, yeah, the the Democrats don't want to play at at all with with
with crypto, and so this is why, like for the past couple of months. I've been kind of hammering in
and like trolling all these, you know, XRP maxies that you know months ago was saying that like
the Clarity Act was a done deal, you know, and it's not a done deal.
Like you are fucking talking out of your ass because you don't understand the political system in
the United States. Like, you know, can I ask? And sorry, excuse my ignorance. If um, yeah,
if there is an election in November, and I say if because obviously you just don't know what
the month. If there is one, and the Republicans lose. Whichever one they're more likely to lose is
the house, the Congress House, one of them. Um, if they lose one of them,
the general consensus over here is that, and I'm being hyperbolic obviously,
that Trump's kind of like a lame duck president because he can't pass things through both houses.
If that well, even oh, even even if even if even if the Republican, I mean,
let's just say the Republicans win, which they won't. But even if they do, I mean,
he's still a lame duck president. What I mean is that can he pass something like the clarity act
if they lose one of those houses in November? No, because any anything. So I mean.
Anything in this country to be codified into like the law of the land needs to go through, yeah,
needs to go through Congress, right? And that's why these bills are so important. So,
like Trump can do these things, like executive orders. The SEC and yeah, the SEC
and the CFTC can also do things like enforce things the way that. You know the administration wants
them to be enforced, right? I mean, so go back to like when Biden was was president,
and Gary Gensler was the head of the SEC. I mean, look at how heavy-handed he was, you know,
on on crypto, right? And so, like that—that's this fucking game that's going to be played.
So the only way to the only way to stop these shenanigans is to have this in the law of the land,
and the only way for that to happen is through. Through Congress, and so if if if the Clarity Act
does not pass, even though like I've made it pretty clear that it's probably not going to pass,
like I would put I would put fucking I would put money on it that it's not going to pass.
But I mean, so if it doesn't pass this year, what happens is next year they have to bring it up. Um,
they have to bring it up all over again, right? And so they care one bit about the crypto bros,
right? Right, so they have to go through the house, right? And it it's already been clear for
several months that the Democrats were going to fucking win the house, right?
So they're going to win the house, and there is not a fucking chance in hell. Like,
is there a reason? Sorry, is there a reason why they haven't rushed it? Because again,
my limited perspective, Trump seems to. Well, so this is yeah. No, well, so this is.
This is another thing that I've been telling people, you know, because it's like,
so you're in this bubble, you're in this crypto bubble, and you think it's the most important thing.
It is, right? Well, so that that's debatable. So here, here in the United States,
if you actually zoom out and you look and you look at what what the average American voter
thinks is important, yeah, like crypto doesn't even break the top ten. And also, you got so like,
and also Trump. I suppose to be fair, like he solves like a war day these days,
so he's probably too busy thinking about crypto at the moment. You know. Well, I mean,
I I don't want to get like I'm messing. Yeah, I know I know what you're really quick.
I just wanted to jump in. Well, we we also have Nemo as a speaker. Yeah,
that's what I was gonna say. We got we got fucking Nemo in the house. He's always a good.
I say one thing and then I'll be quiet because I don't want to monopolize conversation.
I thank you for having me up. Um, I will say it's nice to be back, but I will say one sad thing
about that I find about crypto. Um. And you know it's just a human tendency to always look back
and compare, you know. But I saw a YouTube video recently that reminded me of everything.
It was about remember that lad, the BitBoy Crypto, who ended up like going nuts.
Remember he was fighting the people in his company and everything, and he went to the house
and it was on live stream. It did remind me of the good old days like BitBoy Crypto,
Sam Bankman Fried, where Crypto was just it was amazing during the bull run,
but it was just batshit crazy like Tiger King crazy. And I hope I hope Crypto goes back
to that soon. Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I think, I think getting kind of maybe to your point, I, I want,
I want it to be fun again, right? I mean, but like those fucking, like it wasn't fun.
It was like you know, you said it was everything. It was everything back then. Yeah, yeah, it was,
it was, it was, it was pretty wild. But like a lot of those things were obvious scams,
and you can look at my post history. Like I called those fucking things out,
like from the very beginning, that those were scams. But there were some,
and we were still going to all be billionaires. It was great, you know. Yeah, I mean, what's up,
Nemo? Hey, what's going on, fellas? I was just going to hit you back on the Clarity Act piece.
All right. So I agree. I don't think Clarity Act gets passed, and who knows if the elections
are delayed or not. But for DAG and the snapshots and AI AI Holdings, they just need to deploy
the medical data on chain. To the hypergraph, right? In order to see some snapshots coming through.
What's yeah? I mean, yeah. So I mean, yeah. I mean that that's pretty interesting. I mean,
so like I've always been super bullish on the medical stuff, right? And I've even pointed this fact
out. So many times, like even before, it was obvious what Google and Amazon were doing in
the medical industry. So, like, your medical data is seven times more.
It might even be more valuable now than than like this little fact way back when. But it, your,
your, essentially, your medical data, your medical history, is seven times more valuable
than your financial data. And and this and this is why all these big companies like Google
and Amazon were scooping up all this stuff. So there definitely is something there,
and like I am super bullish about the holding company and Mediguide. So Mediguide operates in
over seventy countries. It's already got this massive network of users. I mean,
I think it's like hundreds of thousands of users. The CEO himself has even gone on
on record multiple times saying, you know, he thinks that you know
that there's definitely something there as far as like an opportunity for.
For those things to like cross pollinate, so we're just gonna have to wait and see and like
how that plays out. But like to answer your question, like yeah, I mean,
I I definitely think um something should happen. Who owns Who owns the company
or the thingy that now Dag is part of? Is is this like a Black Rock thing,
or is it like a person owns it or something, or who? And he owns the medical company thingy as well,
or what's going on? Yeah, so it's a it's a holding company, right? So just like Berkshire Hathaway,
but the same holding company. Like there's there's is it a no there's there's shareholders
and there's a whole board right um it's not like one person set it up and it still owns it
or no no no yeah so there's there's there's a board and there's shareholders
and there's all all this stuff and so like right now there's um I think six companies that are part
of the holding company and then um you know they've talked about adding companies well
actually they just made a press release a couple of days ago about the potential of adding um.
One of M42's companies, as as part of the portfolio, right? And if you look at the things that
M42 is involved with, like there's a lot of possibilities there. Like they've got Epirus,
which I think is just so crazy that this was a company that I was pointing out
that people should pay attention to, like years and years ago. Because do all the companies
in that holding company do they have any like a commonality around? No,
there's there's no commonality, which is which is kind of funny. There's just all different areas.
So like, so like one of the company. So I've never even heard of any of these companies.
But then if you dig into them, so like there's a construction company,
this Carlton Construction Company. Fuck, I've never heard of those fucking dudes. They're in Texas,
and so I I was looking at them, and and I noticed something, and I just out of my own
like curiosity. After all this stuff was announced, I wanted to see if anybody even cared,
or anybody like was willing to like find out the stuff that it's all public, right?
They have a website, and I can't believe that nobody else posted about this. So these fucking guys,
this construction company based in Texas, they're working with Tesla. So they're one
of the major construction companies that's being used by Tesla to build out their gigafactories.
Wow. Yeah. And so, so this holding company have some good links. No, no,
so this holding company owns that construction company. Yeah, and how they, yeah, and so
how they leveraged AI. So this holding company also has this other part of it, M forty two,
that company that I was just talking about earlier. So M forty two is basically the brainchild
of this guy Michael Sandeball. He was the former head of like AI development
and AI research at Microsoft. And so he developed this proprietary AI,
and so this is where you get AI squared, because what AI squared is, it's the combination
of essentially two different AI systems, and the the the construction company.
Is utilizing their proprietary transformable AI, and they looked at the behavioral analysis of
of bidding. So, like when when any company bids for any contract, so this isn't just
like construction. This is just like any company like bidding for a contract.
There really is a lot of psychological elements to this. Like how you win versus how you lose, yeah.
Yeah, a contract, and so they dumped in all of the historical data from this construction company,
and that they found certain patterns, and there is a reason why now this construction company
is outbidding everybody else in Texas. And and and one thing I want to add to all of this too is
is part of the reason why I want to just bring it really quick, taking that information,
I want to take it back to Constellation for a second because part of the reason why I'm so bullish
on Constellation is because it is now under this structure with with AI squared with
their proprietary AI platform. Because you know, John, just really quick to kind of give you
a slight background of me. I like I'm a speech therapist by trade, so I deal with behavior
every single day, and I deal with behavior as it relates to communication.
And the reason I bring that up is because you know. A lot of I haven't, as a matter of fact,
you know, M42's model that they that their own proprietary model that they built,
I was super bullish on because something that had started occurring to me,
and then seeing M42 do it just kind of blew my mind, was that having an AI
that basically became masters of human behavior, and human behavior right often falls under ABC,
right, antecedent, behavior, consequence. Having an AI that masters that concept, you know,
and then you start applying that across a variety of industries. One of like one of the big ones,
obviously, is is finance, but you can apply it across medical. You can apply it across Construction,
right? Even even in the medical setting, you can start applying it to things
like individualized medicine and so forth. But anyways, like when I started hearing more
about their particular model that they were building, that's when I became really bullish. You know,
especially for every company with under their you know their their holding. Yeah, yeah,
and you know, I just did an interview with one of the people that's involved with a company
that's attached to M42. So, um, this guy. He basically teaches behavior
and and pattern recognition to to the military, and they're using that to help train AI on
on pattern recognition. So it's it's basically so this guy he was a former Marine sniper,
and the other co-founder of his team was a a former cop from Detroit, and. Basically,
just giving you like a dumbed down elevator pitch of like what they do is it's it it's just about
like situational awareness and in context. And so, like one of the perfect examples that
he gave during the interview that that I had with him, you can check my profile,
and it's definitely worth like thirty minutes of your time. But he was talking about
the the Boston bombers. So those dudes were yeah. So those dudes were captured on camera,
and you could clearly see like everybody in the crowd. So there's a sea of like thousands of people
that are all watching the race. And then the cops that are that are like watching the race also,
and then there's these two fucking guys with backpacks that aren't watching the race. Yeah.
And and that should have been like the the biggest telltale sign. Like, yeah,
telltale sign that like okay, like these dudes are different than everything else in there. Yeah,
I mean, does that does that automatically mean that these guys are terrorists? No,
but it definitely means that like okay, maybe you should like. Maybe you should like pay attention
to to these guys because because they aren't behaving in in a manner that that the rest of the group
is behaving in. Yeah, no, it is interesting as well, and I think a lot of it is not just the fact
that they're going against the grain, but also it's very hard for someone else in a crowd
to say to stand up and point them out as well. I I was actually watching something
interesting recently. I I presume you're both from America, but there's a guy who's very famous
in England. His name is Darren Brown. And he's like a psychological illusionist.
So part of what he does is he talks about like kind of like what you were saying there
about behavior and you know how humans typically act. But he does it often through
like psychological experiments and magic shows and stuff like that. But he had this one once
where it's called the push. You should look it up if you find it online.
And he manipulates this guy to come to what's a fake charity launch, and the guy ends up
being involved in meeting the benefactor. But the benefactor they fake his death.
And the guy who's with him, who's like, is the CEO of the charity, convinces this random guy
to like carry the body around and hide it, and literally like just be involved in a cover up to keep
the charity going so that they can make money off it all in one night. And at the very end,
they end up on the roof, and it's all down to whether the guy will be convinced to push
the the benefactor off the roof. Who thinks he? They try to kill him and bury his body.
And as it's going along, your man's actually saying. You know, it seems far fetched,
but if you were in this situation, you wouldn't stop either. Like most people,
would just go along with it to not stop, like the big charity event and stuff like that. So,
oh yeah, dude. I mean, there's like super famous like psychological examples. So,
like one of the biggest examples of this is no, it was in Stanford. So it was
the Stanford prison experiment. Oh, prisoner one, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very famous. Yeah,
it is like super famous, and it it it was so famous that because it got out of control, right?
Because even the people that were involved in the experiment got like wrapped up into it. So yeah,
I mean, it is is so easy. It is so easily people can get manipulated. It's it's it's not it's not
even funny. Here, I'll I'll um I'll message you about one. That he he did this guy.
He's he's very good. He um he did this one. No, I won't even tell you about it.
But I'll I'll I'll message you about um. A video that he did, but he he's very good.
Like he just talks about like all about behavioral experiments and things like that.
But it's all about reading people and just basically, you know, being able to read
how most people act and just creating stuff based on that. But like most people are just compliant.
Like most people are pretty much suggestible. There's very few who aren't. You know. Yeah. Yeah.
And that and that's what makes. Like what the holding company doing is like so interesting to me
because they're taking this behavioral aspect of it and they're applying it to to AI. I mean,
it's super fascinating stuff, and it's definitely just worth at least looking into, right?
Especially because AI with the nature of LLMs. They just run on basic patterns. So
if you can get some form of AI which moves beyond that to consider like variables
and just human psychology and more in depth and you know original ways,
that could be the one that wins AI. Because LLMs just run on reoccurring patterns.
You know they're not creating anything new. They're going back into the internet
just to create to rehash stuff. You know, dude, you're you're exactly right. I mean,
and and that's what to me makes like what these guys are doing. So interesting, and yeah, I mean,
it's definitely worth looking into. And it's not just Michael Sandelball, right?
So I realize that most people have never even heard of the guy, you know.
But he was like the chief architect of Microsoft's AI division. But there's also Melvin Greer,
who is is part of Intel. I mean, there's a lot of people that that are involved in this new like
proprietary AI stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think? Do you think? What more do you think
the AI thing might be the thing that DAG really capitalizes on to go well, like the military stuff
and things like that? Even though it's really cool, I got yeah. I mean, I I yeah,
I definitely think so because it's you know it's again it's something that I've talked about like
so many times because so it it's beyond clear that AI needs blockchain right as this uh you know as
this like truth layer because like right now it's being it it's it's harder
and harder to discern uh. Between AI and and reality, one, and and number two, um, you know,
so AI in it of itself is you know a tool, and I think a tool like I think you were saying earlier,
yes, it can be used for good and for bad, but like how how do you trust it, right? Like
how do you know this is a good tool versus a bad tool? So like one thing that you know is
completely different about Constellations Network versus any other network is its ability to, uh,
um. Not only data tag, but create an attribution and assurance score on stuff, right?
And so you can have like weighted weighted models. So it's like to give kind of like a dumbed down
version. It would be kind of like a Yelp review of like different things.
And so you would have like a ninety plus percent you know accuracy score that that this is
a trusted result. Yeah. It is fascinating, and plus, like I suppose, as interesting as AI is,
it it's kind of like that. It's very much in its infancy, you know, compared to what it can
and maybe will become. I suppose the only thing that could hold AI back is, um,
the whole energy thing. I know, like where I am, I'm in Ireland, and like the big thing here is
because we've got all the European headquarters, all the tech companies here, you know, and um,
they like about twenty percent of all of Ireland's electricity, and they were very small,
is used by data centers at the moment, and like we have pretty like most of the world at the moment
that we have um. Like hose pipe bans and water bans with the heat and stuff like that,
but a lot of people in Ireland are saying, you know, the fuck, like the data centers aren't having
their water bans and stuff like that, and I wonder. Yeah, well, I mean, so like here, here. Well,
so here in the U.S., I mean, again, so this could change with the next administration,
but like here in the U.S., I mean, this administration has already passed, um,
essentially an executive order saying that like any data center that that comes online can't use
public infrastructure. Yeah, power grid. Like full stop, right? And so, right, and so,
like this goes back to some of the other stuff that I've been talking about. Like before,
most people were even talking about this stuff, nuclear reactors. So you have you you have
these things called small modular reactors, which are essentially like like.
Really compact versions of like these big big reactors, and you could you could power a data center
right there on site, and you could even have cities with their own isolated power grids
that are completely separated from the the big power grid. Um. Yeah, I mean,
there's super exciting stuff, but you know, all of these things require regulations
and and laws to be passed. And I mean, not to get like too too political, but if you
if you follow a lot of this stuff, a lot of this a lot of these talking points that are
complete bullshit, especially like with the water. So you mentioned the stuff about water. So
if you look at how much water these data centers use, it so more. Just in America alone,
more people use water to make fucking coffee every day than these data centers use. Yeah. So,
so a lot of this like propaganda is is coming from China. Yeah. And people, yeah, and people,
and people aren't aware of this because there is this battle, there is this arms race right now,
to achieve AI supremacy. Well, only one is going to win. You know, in terms like ChatGPT, Claude,
all that, like only one really can win in the end. Do you not think so? Um, I don't. Well, I mean,
there's there's companies, but like you know, but then there's but then there's
but then there's also like national sovereignty. So like I'm more of in alignment with uh
like Alex Carp. So Alex Carp is the CEO of Palantir, right?
And and and he's you know been shit talking all of these um. You know, big, big companies, right?
And and a lot of the stuff is fake, right? Like the stuff from OpenAI and Anthropic,
because they're just basically selling you tokens, which is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo, right?
But AI itself, there there is no question on its effectiveness. We we the.
But they won't start to intro. There a lot of those companies though. I I imagine maybe I'm wrong,
like you know ChatGPT, which you know it's kind of it I it's handy. I don't use for everything,
but I imagine their plan probably their plan probably was that by now they'd have like most
of the world on like their monthly subscription, whereas most people just still use it for free.
Like they're leaking money. Like they can't keep leaking money forever. You know what I mean? No.
Well, because a a lot of these people are just fucking opportunists, right?
They're just trying to make money. They don't they don't give a fuck about like altruism
or like any of that stuff. They they just want to make money. But then there are some people,
and I truly believe this, that really you know have this like anarchist. View
and they really do want to bring down the the end of society, right? And this is where you get
the two two different viewpoints between like like completely open source systems
and and close source systems. I I'm not an AI doomer. I fundamentally believe
that artificial intelligence is going to transform. This species out of the the rut that
we've been stuck in since the dawn of time. I mean, you can go back to as far as we have access
to written language, which is the cuneiform tablets, and you can look at those tablets,
and you can see the stuff that people were arguing about millennia ago. And if I was just,
and if I was just to read you. You know, one of these like, and so this is just like day
to day stuff. You know, like a shopkeeper, you know, explaining, you know, his day to day stuff,
and it it would be as if someone was telling you like right now. So like, people haven't changed.
The only thing that has changed throughout the millennia is is technology. Do you think though,
like as much as it's come along at the moment, it does seem to be like there is a ceiling on it,
like. There, like it does, still hallucinate quite. Like I give you an example, right?
I was watching a game cricket recently, right? You know what cricket is. Yeah, and I know, yeah,
but so, but the hallucin. So I mean, sorry, sorry to stop you, but like, no, no, no, but you,
you are looking at it through the lens of of only. From which you have access to, right? So yes,
yeah, yeah. So so yes, these these, yes, so yes, these things like Gemini, OpenAI, Anthropic,
like they all fucking hallucinate, right? But there are real AI that absolutely
that that absolutely fucking work, and I can give you an I can give you an example of one
that fucking works, Palantir. But but my but the counter argument, and you are right.
The counter argument to that would be that well, there's two. I think the main counter argument
would be And there will be ones that do work eventually, but I suppose the issue will be
that those companies aren't going to, out of the goodness of their heart, let little old you
and me use their powerful AIs, which can change the world for free. And well, I mean,
you're willing to, you know, because someone has to pay for it. And right, so if we don't, so some,
who will? Yeah, so somebody does have to pay for it. I mean, you're right, and so
whether whether or not you believe Elon has like good intentions, um. You can't argue with
what's been out so far, like every so so like Grok is totally open source, and it and and it and it
and as far as all of these other models, it doesn't hallucinate as much as the these other ones do.
The other thing too is that I'm not sure if you saw in the news recently,
but like Nvidia is gonna gonna fund. I don't remember the name of the company,
but they're essentially competing with these Chinese open source models.
And it's in the billions of dollars that that they're going to fund,
and so they're basically going to fund these open source models. And so, so like, if China win,
would that make a difference? It if China wins the AI race, yeah, would that make really much
of a difference? Ah, like it doesn't matter who wins. Like, if someone wins,
will AI inevitably be the thing that you say will, which will drag us out of our our rut that
we've all been in? Or does it have to be one of the like American companies? To so I mean,
I mean obviously coming coming from an American man, I I don't know. No, I only ask because like,
and I don't I don't claim to know everything. Obviously, I'm listening. I'm just asking, you know,
just because we're all talking. But the impression I get from some of the stuff I've seen is
that China might be ahead of. America, and I don't mean to be little America,
because Ireland will never be anywhere near any of these. Well, they're they're definitely
they're definitely catching up. I mean, and so one of the reasons why they're catching up is
because they're not really constrained to the same rules and regulations that the United States has,
right? So in in in China, it's basically. You know, you do what we say, or we'll not only kill you,
but we'll essentially fucking burn your whole village. Well, I agree with that. You know,
there are parts of China, right? Yeah, yeah. And so it's like you fucking you either get in line
or die. And then here in America, it it it's it's not that way. And so you know, for for them,
it's it's um, it's it's a lot faster to get shit done, but. What they're doing is—is it necessarily
the the best approach? I mean, I I don't know. I mean, I I I tend to think not because here,
you know, as as far as like our entire history as a country in the United States,
it's about the freedom of of ideas, and it's the best idea that that sort of wins. Oh no,
I agree with you. I'd be more American, pro American, in China, but yeah. No, I just wonder
because obviously, and I don't know everything about it, but you hear about people saying it
as all the AI is all the signs of a bubble. You know, I think what the bubble—I think the bubble
is—is most. I don't think that there is a bubble. I—I think we haven't even peaked.
Like true adoption of of artificial intelligence, what what the what the bubble, I think,
is similar to the bubble that we had in in the dot com era, where in the dot com era,
which is essentially the dawn of the internet, right? You had so much hype. It was the same thing.
You had so much. Fever, and you know there was all these companies popping up.
There was so much money, like flushing in, and a lot of it was bullshit.
A lot of it was like the Emperor's New Clothes. But if you tuned out the noise
and you filtered in like the signal, I mean, it was pretty obvious, like what Amazon was doing
and why they were going to be winners, and and and Google, for example, what they were doing
and why they were going to be winners. I mean, there was all these like countless examples.
And you can go back in history because now we have the time to look at that and be like, okay, well,
why were these guys successful? What were they doing different that was not amongst all the noise
and hype at the time? And you can see the same. You can see the same thing now
with artificial intelligence for sure. There's a fuck ton of hype around AI,
which you can get easily distracted by all all the hype. I don't think it makes it for like another.
Maybe ten years. Really quick, too. I just wanted to to bring us back and see if we had anybody
else too that wanted to come up. I know we have a few listeners still out there. Oh yeah,
if anyone wants to come up, because I'm still waiting to hear when die gets to a dollar.
And thank you. Seriously, nan, no financial advice though. You guys are more into it than I do.
Let's say I bought a hundred thousand die tomorrow. Do you think by the end of 2027,
it'll be ten cents? You know, and it's not financial advice. I know. No, yeah, yeah, no, no.
I we put the disclaimer up there. We're good, but like, I, I, I honestly think, I really don't.
My honest opinion, I don't think it's as simple as a as a yes no. Right? It's all probabilities.
I would, I would love to see them, you know, at in twenty twenty seven there, but I, I think.
You know, we've had many community members have talked about this too. It it comes down to adoption,
and they're doing the right things to be adopted, right? We're even seeing that with their snapshots
increasing, you know. And then, you know, with the trans transfer, the the AI being applied to door
and so forth. I mean, they're making the right moves, and in my opinion,
I think they're making the right moves. But you know, it it really is just going to come down
to that adoption cycle. Yeah, I presume. I presume. Yeah, snapshots. I presume.
I presume in a basic way. If it is be the beginning of a little bull run,
and who knows how long it'll be, whatever. Let's say there is a bull thing in 2027. Pretty much,
if you buy anything. You'll make money, you know, because everything goes up for a while.
You just have to get out at the right time. Yeah, I mean, like I said,
I've been in markets a long time, and a lot of some of it is luck, some of it is positioning,
and you know, of course, doing the right things. Like that's why, like,
I always love questions like that because it's so fun. Like, let's be honest, like it is,
it is so much fun to to fantasize about a price rising up like that, and you think about, oh man,
what would I do with those fortunes, right? I know everybody does that, but. You know, I mean,
it would. Everybody would love it, but you know, it's it's. Those are always tough questions. Fun,
but tough. Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah. No, because well, I think wasn't there. Hold on,
we we got a new guy in here. What's up, Rudy? Randy. Whoop! Did we lose him? I don't know. I do.
Hey, can you guys hear me? Oh yeah. Oh, we got somebody from down under. How's this for you, mate?
How you doing? Good day, mate. Hey, yeah, I was messaging you earlier, Dagnam,
about um a pack drop issue. Yeah. Yeah, I think I've been talking to a lot of my friends
who aren't really in the crypto game or all that computer well literate, I'd say,
and dubious about getting into it, given past problems with crypto and you know the bad name that
it's had over the years. And I've been flying the flag for about five years with Constellation
and and talking to my friends about it, and a lot of people have have gotten into it.
And I've been dabbling in in PackerSwap since it started, and I think.
I know there's some issues at the moment with my, you know, the LPs, and I had a problem
with my door DAG LP. A balance disappeared, and it's really hard to get customer service.
And I think that's the biggest problem with going forward with trust, with applying some
of your finances to a dashboard that really doesn't have a direct customer service
that will reply instantly or you know quite swiftly. And I think. You know, in my experience in
the last few weeks, I've been putting it out there to people for some some help
with what happened with my account, and I've been contacted by three scammers using fake accounts,
but I haven't received anything. Sorry, do you mind me asking what happened to your account?
Oh well, I swapped a lot of up tokens, swap tokens, and exchanged some of my door, sorry,
my DAG for more door tokens. I've been earning with on the Metagraph up and door, and I've.
I put them into a Doraq liquidity pool, and I watched my balance increase appropriately.
I already had a balance, and I watched it increase for what I just added to it. Two minutes later,
it disappeared, and I can't find it anywhere. It's not in my wallet. It's not on the Metagraph
anywhere. It's I've searched high and low. I took my wallet off the extension.
I put it back on again. It's still not there. Entered my cache. Yeah. So I don't know where it is,
and I'm not really getting any help with that. And I think that's that's the problem with adoption
is is is the trust. Yeah. I'm not saying that you know I I know problems happen
and and they can be sorted, but if there's not a direct customer service that can look into
things quickly and and people don't feel that support instantly, it's a real turnoff.
Could I could I say one thing on top of that? I I agree with that and. Um,
I found one of the issues with the community. Well, I think it's the good and the bad,
because I suppose they rely on it being community based to kind of offset that to some extent.
But I did find years ago when the hype was really big, and probably maybe it's still the same now.
If anyone was on like Telegram and came in with like a comment like you, even
if it was like not like oh, tags a scam. If it was something like you said there,
and you were just having a constructive criticism of it, you'd just be shouted down immediately.
There was no kind of sense that we need to bring this stuff in or. Is there any way we can
and should keep improving it? It just felt like you either all in or fuck off, you know. Yeah, yeah,
absolutely, absolutely. So, so what what do we do about this? And also, as well,
I suppose for people like I imagine you sound like you're more savvy about all this than me.
There's people who will come in and who will buy crypto, and they won't have an idea really what
to do after that, or they won't. They they'll probably think I'll I'll put my seed phrase on my I
'll send it to myself an email or something. Like there'll be people who won't be tech savvy
who need. You know stuff like that, and doesn't ever anything there for them, you know? Yeah, yeah,
and I mean, there's a lot of things like I'm always following everything that. Well,
I follow Dagnum, you know, almost daily. Don't follow him. He didn't tell me
when Dag's gonna make it to a dollar. Leave him. Hey, yeah, I still think it will, and and and he.
I'm still waiting for him to say, "I told you so," but I think that won't happen until he hits
a dollar. Hey, look, you sound like you know. You sound like you know.
When's it gonna go to a dollar? You tell me. Me? Yeah. You tell me. Well, mate,
if we can get customer service sorted out with PackerSwap, maybe diagnose the customer service.
Mate, you'd be surprised at how little I can explain how crypto works. You know,
I I get it in my mind, and I love the flywheel of Constellation and PackerSwap,
and and everything that's happening. I think it's very exciting, and I I do feel like mass adoption
is going to happen one way or another. But um, yeah, I mean, I don't I don't mean to keep banging
the drum, but I I really think. I mean, it took me a long time to trust moving some of my tokens
from the Metagraph because I felt like that was safe, and I really liked backing up the projects
and all the Metagraphs on the Explorer. That felt good. It was it was a step to move it
from the wallet to there. That was a trust thing, and I do feel safe with it there.
It was another big trust step to move some of that to Pakaswap and put it in LP pools,
and I started really trusting that. I had a bit in there, and The 21-day unlock was actually
a blessing to me because I was two days away from putting half of my bag
into a Doordash liquidity pool, and then part of my balance disappeared.
So I'm really glad I didn't, but. I'm really, I'm really hopeful and confident it can be sorted.
I would just really like to be pointed in the right direction to get it sorted
because you can see it in my transaction history that I've exchanged everything, you know,
all my tokens. Yeah. So I mean, it's obvious to see, but I mean, I watched it disappear in front
of my eyes. So. Have they ever had good customer service like? Has that ever been a thing?
Has it gotten slacker? Or. I've never had to use the customer service before for Packer Swap.
I always get really quick replies from any questions that I have about constellation,
not not issues that I've had, but just you know, just questions in general inquiries. And yeah,
yeah. Just no, dear. It's kind of a. Is it random? What is in this? I mean,
I imagine it's not their priority, not in the bad way. Just, I imagine they're trying to build
and roll out and stuff. So that's obviously where they're. Yeah, but I mean I'm a big fan.
I've got a lot of people into Constellation, and I'd really like to get this issue sorted with
Packer Swap, and I'd like to be able to tell all the people that I've got into it that hey,
there was an issue, and guess what? They got it sorted really fast, and it's great.
So I'd really like to be swinging that angle instead of the feeling that I've got at the moment.
Yeah, well, hopefully you got your tokens back anyway. Yeah, if anyone can help me with that,
please let me know. But um, and in closing, you're all awesome, and I'm a big fan of Constellation.
And I'm really excited about Intrana as well. So yeah, onwards and upwards for all of us.
Are you from Aussie Australia? Yeah, I'm on the Sunshine Coast in in Australia. Oh nice,
great place. I watch a bit of. Rugby league on Friday and Saturdays. I'm a fan of it, so oh dear,
yeah. I I don't have a team. I just like watching it. Like it's quite entertaining.
We have there's rugby league in England. You know they play like the champions of England play
the champions of Australia every year in a random thing, but um the English one just isn't as good.
Like Australia, they play a lot quicker pace. It's more entertaining. So whenever I get up,
like I'm in Ireland, when I get up in the morning, there's always a couple games on on the night
in Australia. So it's fun to watch. It's pretty amazing what they can do with no helmets or pads,
eh? Ah, listen, you know, so yeah, they're not bitches like those American footballers, you know.
But no, it's it's for fun. Do you ever watch any Australian rules football? AFL? No,
I'm not as big a fan of it. I know it's big over there, you know. Um, but no,
I like my my rugby league. It's uh, it's entertaining. But uh, for yeah. And yeah, no,
I was in Australia years ago. I went to Melbourne. I was in New Zealand for
the Rugby World Cup in 2011, so I popped over to Melbourne because I was thinking I'd never be back
over that neck of the woods. So I was there for a few weeks. It was good fun. Oh well,
hit up Sunshine Coast next time you come, mate. It's beautiful. Well, when um when Dad gets to
a dollar, I'll fly my private jet over. Yeah, I've just been walking my friend's dog on the beach,
and I saw I saw I walked for an hour and a half, and I saw three people on this beach. Jesus!
Oh well, it's your beach, the Fair Play's here, you know. Yeah, and there's an international airport
half an hour away from here. Wow! So it's pretty good. Well, I'll park my jet there
when then when Dad makes it. Well, yeah. Let me know when you're flying your jet into town.
I'd like that little ride myself. I'll bring the prawns, some good Australian beer. Oh,
there you go. So I'll bring some. I'll bring some Guinness tomorrow as well. Yeah, awesome.
Sounds good. Nice to meet you. Yeah, you too. And yeah, that's it for me. But yeah, thanks, guys.
And if anyone can help me with my issue, I would really appreciate it. Yeah,
thanks for thanks for coming up and and taking a second there, Randy. Appreciate it. Yeah.
No worries. All right, and on that note, I think we've exhausted all topics. I think so.
I think we're good here. Yeah. All right, take it easy, everybody. Thanks for joining,
and we'll see you on the next one. Thanks, guys. Have a nice day. Bye. Have a good one. See ya.
