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🇦🇺🌌 Midnight Down UnderMidnight + CardanoWhy Cardano Was Chosen
Recorded: June 12, 2026 Duration: 1:56:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello.
How you guys going? Wow.
Okay, so I've I've just sent our co-host to your straight pool. There you are. Excellent. Hey,
hey Matt. Hey Chris, how are you? Very good, thanks. Very good. I'll just get.
I don't know if Tom's going to be jumping up to say hello.
I'll invite him to speak. There we go. Good. Good morning, Tom.
He'll be sorting his um his microphone out. Um, are you currently at? Are you currently working,
or you said you're on lunch break? Yeah, just my break. Yeah, that's fine. Nice, nice, nice. Yeah,
so hopefully we get a few people in. It hasn't started yet, so I just I thought that might. Yeah,
I'm just trying to figure out how to use the co-host features.
I can mute the whole space. It seems. Can I also mute a single people? So how to?
Not sure how this works. Yeah, it's ah manage space. No, I found it. Okay, move from speakers. Okay,
I found it. Okay, should be fine. Yeah. Yeah. So I think. Are you on your phone? No, I'm on desktop.
Desktop. Okay. I I don't trust my phone on X on for something like this. Yeah, hundred percent.
Because I I don't know when I listen to a space on on the phone regularly,
when the screen goes dark, the audio stops, and I tried to reinstall it a number of times,
but it's never really stable. Yeah, I don't know. It must be just the fact that a lot
of people are using it and doing spaces and stuff like that. Yeah, and I think on mobile it's also
a battery saving issue, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, the spy. It'll be early morning for Spy
and Tom. There, um, I think for Spy it'll be, uh, 4 a.m. I believe. That's right, 4 a.m. Here I am.
Wow, well, that's dedication. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning, Spy. How are you? Good.
I'm good. I'm gonna go clean my mom's room today, but I'm good. You'll have to have a nap
this afternoon. Yeah, 'cause I got a space tonight with Dips. Yeah. How exciting. Good morning,
Dips. Yeah, I'm just trying to get Dips to come up and speak. Is my microphone? Yeah, it is.
We can hear. Okay, Dips. Dips has a special guest for us today as well. Hello, guys. How are you?
Dips. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good evening from India. Good to hear you, mate.
Likewise, sir. Likewise. Have you have you got your um speech ready, mate? Yeah,
you know I don't have a proper speech. Only a moderator, you know. So, but still,
I my friend definitely will be coming in some time. I think in the next five ten minutes for sure.
Excellent. Have Have any any of you spoken to Chris before in the Discord? Oh, Chris is here.
The Chris is straight. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I told you about that. Thank you,
thank you coming. Thank you for coming, Chris. It's really nice to have you here.
He's accepted the co-host. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, I can see. That's really amazing. Yeah,
so he's excited to play around with all the. He he. He reckons
he's going to mute the whole space soon. He wants to try it out. He wants to press the red button.
So um, I thought I might just quickly just go through something quickly before we start. So, um,
basically tonight we we're going to be exploring one of the most important relationships
in crypto right now. Hey, so and that's midnight and Cardano. A couple of questions that
we're going to try and break through is why why Cardano was chosen, why Cardano SPOs
are participating, and what does shared security actually mean? And that's that's important
because obviously Midnight will be utilizing the the Cardano infrastructure. Yep. And how does
how does it all fit into Midnight's long term vision? You know, of being a partner.
Nice. So yeah, it's out there before another straight pool comes up. Straight pool is my favorite.
Just say. Thank you. Like to hear that. Yeah, sticking with you for a while, brother. There you go.
Good choice. I um had a look at your uh your website um and there's some really detailed information
on there. So yeah, if anyone wants to have a look on Straight Pool's website,
I'll drop it into the chat once we're finished. Yeah, it goes. It's you can tell that you can tell
that Chris is very very passionate about Cardano and everything that's written in there.
You can tell that it's from the heart. So yeah, if you guys want to have a look at that later on,
it's pretty cool. Thanks, Sam. So, long time in Catalan. So, when did you start your pool, Chris?
Oh, in the ITN, and the first, yeah, incentivized testnet before actually launched. Oh, really?
Yeah. Wow. One of the audrey pools. How um, how was the experience? Well,
the ITN was an interesting, fun experience. It was called German Gander. It was a Rust-based node,
not Haskell, and it was a rather Intensive work to keep it stable, but was a fun experience.
So we also, as SPOs, had to stay up late and babysit blocks being minted and stuff,
and restart the node, and then we came up with failover scripts. And but was an interesting time.
But when Shelley came up in mainnet with Haskell, things changed and was much more stable.
But many people still liked the ITN time. Was fun times. Yeah, and so I don't,
I don't really understand all the SPO stuff. So. What's what's a what's a day to day job of an SPO?
Day to day job is basically keeping sure that it runs smoothly. So you have to be up to date
on upgrades. So they have a coming upcoming hard fork right now in Cardano to version eleven
coming up soon. They have a Northern hard fork. And so as an SPO, you have to be up to date
on the node software. Yeah. So when when the transition comes, that you still make blocks.
This the definition of hard fork. That if you don't upgrade, you can't follow the chain anymore
after the hard fork. Other than that, you as an SPO have, of course, some governance actions to vote
on, like hard forks, and not so much LSD reps. And you have to keep up with monitoring. So I have
extensive monitoring setup for my pool, and when anything goes off the thresholds, I get alerted,
and then I have to inspect or inspect the node behavior and logs if there's any issue
and fix the issue. But overall, the Haskell node runs very stable. And of course,
what you also do as an SPO typically is You monitor resource usage over the years.
When I look at the beginnings of Cardano, the hardware requirements have risen quite a lot
in multiple areas, like CPU, memory, and disk space. So you have to scale up whatever
you're using as a VM or machine in time before it blows up. Ah, that's really that's
really interesting because yeah, I haven't. I yeah, I honestly honestly don't understand much
at all. So it's really good to hear. From someone that's actually been running one since the day,
like day dot. So, yeah, it's pretty interesting. And the reason, the reason that I thought
you know we should do this space is because you know midnight is important,
but it it needs Cardano to be to be midnight, right? So that's the reason why I thought you know
what we should do this space. We should talk about Cardano. We should get people to understand
how Cardano works. You know what what its what its job is, and um, what a great person to talk talk
about it. I see Pete's Pete's listening. Um, I did send him a co-host.
He might jump up a bit later when he's ready. Um, but and hopefully we can get a bit
of a um conversation going on between yourself and Pete, which would be great.
Two two SPOs just smashing it out. So. So you're talking about this new hard fork coming up.
Can you explain a little bit about that? Yeah. So regularly, Cardano has feature upgrades. So,
for example, Bluetooth is getting new functionality, new primitives for cryptography and stuff.
And to actually support this, the chain has to be upgraded, and the blocks' content will change due
to the upgrades in a hard fork. So the validation has to change, and so the new blocks are accepted,
and only those new blocks are accepted. A hard fork has to be initiated,
so all the SPOs have to upgrade their node software to the newest version,
compliant with the new behavior after the hard fork, and so they all aligned on validation rules
which are valid after the hard fork, and then the hard fork is triggered.
We typically wait until certain thresholds of SPOs have upgraded, and after basically the majority
of stake is upgraded, it makes sense to try. But it's not only SPOs which are important here.
We also have the whole ecosystem dependent on a functional blockchain.
So we have also all the different apps, the exchanges, different third-party dependencies,
indexer tools, and APIs, and so on. And they all have to be upgraded to be compliant
and workable with the new features of the hard fork. Sometimes, for example,
the API changes a little bit, and the CLI typically changes from hard fork to hard fork,
so scripts break and stuff, and you have to update. This changes, and this the hard fork is
the mechanism for Cardano to move up in in feature functionality. And what's really nice in Cardano
in this case is that it's using a so-called hard fork combinator, so you can smoothly upgrade from
one hard fork to the next, and smooth the transition from one block to the next,
which is kind of unique to Cardano. Yeah, it's um one of one of Cardano's real cool features, right?
So it basically network-wide upgrades and seam and and obviously hard forks seamlessly
without ever stopping or shutting down the blockchain at all, which is absolutely cool. Yeah,
I remember the first hard fork we had, I think, in Develos. Then you had fireworks,
virtual fireworks, and the and the UI were fun. So now it's rather normal.
So you just have to be upgraded, and then it's and very thankfully a non-event.
So it it doesn't break anything. Hundred percent. And also as well, if the blockchain ever had,
for an example, a transaction that went wrong, that there's an option straight away to be
able to hard fork and and divert. So yeah, it's amazing. Hey, Pete. Yeah,
it can't go over this quickly. But we just a couple of months ago we had an issue.
I'm not sure who remembers. And then it was really important that the SPOs upgraded to
the correct version of the node, so the bad transaction or bad block didn't propagate.
And this this was one of the cases. But it's it's it isn't really easy to spontaneously make
a hard fork because if you do, you would break a lot of other dependencies.
But if something unexpected happens, typically it could be because of some bug or something.
And because we have also in mainnet rather different versions of Cardano running, it has been shown
last time that some versions were not susceptible to the bug. So older versions were fine.
One version was specific problematic. The newest version was also fine.
So we had to make sure that SPOs were on the correct version, and this was quickly fixed then.
So just slowed down the chain a bit, and we had a fork for a while.
But this was handled very nicely, I think. Hundred percent. I think I was lucky.
My stake pool was running on the older version and just kept on powering on through. Yeah, mine too.
Yeah, that was a exciting time, I have to say. Yeah, and I remember in the chat
when we discussed this. And do should I upgrade? No, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, not started yet.
That's fun. And in the end, he said, Yeah, still minting blocks. Yeah, yeah. Just wait.
Everyone else pulled their stuff out, and then I upgraded. And this changes, of course,
after the hard fork. So after the hard fork, all SPOs have to run the same version.
And then from this hard fork to the next, then there will new node upgrades in between,
which don't require hard fork, but maybe add some features which are not also possible
without hard forking. And that could also be an issue again, but because we have different nodes,
we can then select the one which is not problematic. And this will be also very interesting,
I think, in the future when we have different nodes to Haskell. This is coming up, I think,
next year or maybe end of this year with Dolos and Amaru node and stuff.
So be fun to see how they behave, but Haskell is running very nicely, so will be interesting.
And wonder which SP will dare to first run a block minting node on a different than Haskell node.
And for you, for those who don't know, so Straight Pool his ticker is STR8, and Pete's is ADOZ.
Thought I might just add that in there. Yeah, I'm gonna throw mine also in there. Hello, everybody.
Hey, Jinx. How are you doing? Now my brain is a bit fried, man, but I'm I'm here. So,
how's everybody doing? Yeah, we're all good. First of all, I would like to say I love
a German accent, man. It's just something, something about it, man. It's very calming. Yes. No, no.
One of our team members, Snakeable, he's also German. So every time we are on a call.
It's like a soothing sound, but it's probably just my opinion on that. Thank you. Yeah,
I try to get rid of it, but it's very difficult. No, no, no, no. Keep it. Listen. So I want to ask.
I'm not. I'm not the most technical person when it comes to to HPOs. So my questions is going to be
very surface level. So we recently also started our pool, which is the Wade Pool. W A D E.
And it will at the latest stage it will link into our platform that we are launching next week for
Viper Coin. Now our pool was set up by Anvil, and they are operating it for us. Now.
I tried to get this information from from the person that set it up for us. Now I was wondering,
Pete and and straight, if you if you guys might have more insights into it.
So currently we are on like just under ninety thousand ADA, which is for HBO is like nothing.
It's it's very small, but we have managed to to do five blocks so far. Which, to my understanding,
is quite good for the size of the pool. So my question is, for anybody that's looking to start up
a pool and so on, based on your experience, what is the main driving force? For your success, right?
To in order to to to do blocks, is it just purely luck in the beginning, or what what factors?
Can I jump in there quickly, mate? Yes. So I was actually listening to a space earlier,
and Pete was talking, and he was talking a little bit about his stake pool and how he started,
and he started it up, and he was all excited about starting this pool up, but then he realized
that he sort of needed delegation, so that's when he sort of started a podcast, and then. And then
that that sort of went off a little bit, but then he decided to start a YouTube channel
and grew that YouTube channel over a certain period time, while while promoting his stake pool.
And I believe that's how he got his pool up to where he was now, well, where he is now. Yeah,
I think that's certainly one way to do it, and I think that's how many pools operate by just
or by having heavy marketing. Which can be very successful. Personally,
I'm also happy to share my story. So, because I was an OJ pool, so I was in the very early days or
the first days when Scarano went from Byron to Shelley and had the ITN,
I was very active in different groups. And there's a Telegram group best practice for SPOs.
And in there, I was very active, and it was time, and we exchanged ideas. And as the title said,
best practice: how to run a good pool. And I optimized my monitoring and stuff in the time
and my setup. And I was lucky enough; some large whale found my pool back then
and realized that I had the technical capability to run a reliable pool. This what I want to do.
So this also why the pool is called straight pool. I want to be straightforward and simple,
and I just want to have a reliable pool and not save the world basically,
but just have a good infrastructure. And the whale found me and said, "Okay,
this is a reliable pool, and I will delegate to him." And he delegated 20 million ADA back then
to me in one go, and this was a very big trigger in the early stages, the first epochs,
and then I. Grow pretty quickly in stake because when delegators see a pool has a certain size,
typically there's a vote of confidence, and other delegators will then move to this pool.
And this this helped me get bigger and bigger, up to saturation at one point.
And it was a fun time because I remember this delegate of mine. He then anonymously contacted me
with back then there was a messaging feature on Sex Explorer. On the old version,
and he wrote to me that he is very happy with my pool. He will move out most of the stake now, not
because he's unhappy, but because he feels other pools are more neat than I am. It was very nice.
I never learned who he was. I think he still has one million or something in my pool.
But he was a very, very nice delegate. The best experience ever. And if I ever,
if ever wants to show it him to me or her to me, I will be in Singapore. Been a lovely to meet up
and share a drink or something. Was a fun time. So, so let let me let me thank you for for
for the background, the histories from it. Let me rephrase my question, maybe. So,
if you look at like a solo miner on Bitcoin, that's basically like you throwing a line
into the ocean and hoping you. Catch something. It's more of a lucky draw than anything else. Even
though your odds are better to get a block than winning the lottery. But anyway,
so on on on Cardano's side, if because obviously I understand as as the pool delegation grows,
your odds of getting blocks and so on obviously increase as well. Now my question is about
smaller pools like ours, for example, that's like ninety thousand ADA,
but we've already managed to do five blocks. So is that more to do with the optimization of our pool
when it was set up, or what factors govern the ability to get blocks in the early stages of
of your SPO startup? Yeah, so there's only one parameter which governs
how many blocks you are allowed to make, which is the total stake. So if you have made five blocks
with the amount of stake you set in a short amount of time, this was a lot of luck.
So this was there's also luck in this, of course. Obviously, the Cardano chain uses slot lottery.
That's just the name. So basically, the pool will every second. Every slot will determine via
the VRF, the verifiable random function, check if it's allowed to make a block.
And the more stake you have as an SPO, a total stake, so pledged plus delegated stake,
the more chance you have. The more lottery tickets basically you have to win the slots. Is there,
sorry, is there, yeah, is there a time where you could have too much stake? Yes, there is a time,
which is determined by the key parameter. The K parameter is currently set at 500,
and this defines the maximum stake a pool can have until it stops getting more rewards. So,
so there's a reward ceiling. So at some point, so when you get more, the I think right now
this duration level is like. 77 million ADA. So, also the highest rewards will be at this point. So,
ideally, you delegate to as a delegate to a pool which is close to saturation level,
or the pool should strive to be there. And the game theory also aims to have exactly k pools. So,
this is when you look at the original game theory designs of Cardano. So and Jinx, so basically,
if sorry, so basically, what you're saying is we are extremely lucky with getting five blocks
with like 89,000. Okay, I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. If you manage to get a million,
eight million, three million. Hey, Jinx, Jinx, hold up, hold up. Pete's talking to you. Oh, sorry,
man. Yeah, if. If you manage to get between one million to three million ADA,
you would find that your pool be sustainable. You're minting blocks every epoch. Yeah, that is.
So for us at Viper, with our planning for our trading platform and so on,
and the rewards system that we plan on introducing, the aim for us was two million ADA in order
to make it a viable plan. So that is why we started the pool, and that is our goal.
Anything above that is a bonus, but that is that is. That is what we are trying to achieve:
is two million ADA. That's a good plan, and and maybe to understand the the ceiling a bit better,
more blocks you make depends on the on the stake, and if you have like I know
one hundred million ADA, you are clearly above the threshold, and you will also make
more blocks because you will have more stake. So there's no ceiling on how many blocks you can make.
You can have also one billion ADA delegated to you in theory as as a SPO.
And you would make a lot of ton of blocks, but the issue, because this will level out automatically,
is then that there's a ceiling how much blocks will be paid rewards for,
and after the ceiling of a maximum blocks you can make with a regular case saturation level.
Then you have much more delegation, of course, much more delegators, but they will share
a much smaller share of rewards because you have many more people sharing the same pie of rewards,
basically. And then they will leave automatically. So I never, as an SPO,
I have been running this for beginning for many years now. I have never had the issue of going over
saturation, never ever. So even if I was very, very close to saturation, it never happens.
Or if it happens, I think it happened once, and then it. Fix itself in the same epoch,
so it's so people know. Yeah, and and and I think I on the other yeah, Pete. Yeah,
I on the other hand did go over saturation for many epochs. It was during Sunday swaps. ISP or ISO.
Ah, ah. I I had absolutely no control over people just delegating without looking, and yeah, went.
I I think um seventy seven eighty million ADA delegation, and rewards started tapering off. Yeah,
it's it's permissionless, so you you can't stop delegators from delegating to you as an SPO.
You don't know who they are, and it's I think it's a good design, so you can't influence this. So,
yeah, I'm so for an example, I'm a new. I've just come into to you know crypto. You know,
I've bought my first bit of money, a bit of Cardano from from you know
a Australian centralized exchange, and I've just put it across into say. Into a ledger
or something like that, right? And it's come up to the section where you know I can delegate
my money, oh, my ADA to a stake pool. My question would be, for a new person, what am I looking at?
What, what, who do I choose? Like, you know what I mean? Like, do I just choose the first one,
or as a as an you know used to a great SPOs, right? What what would a new person be looking for?
Yeah, it's a good question. We also have in telecom the same question on many social channels,
and we have a good list of recommendations. And I think it depends on what you want as a delegator.
So some want to have the most reliable, most technical fit pool. Some,
which is the area I specialize in. Some might want to have emission-driven pool, which I don't know,
donates some part of the rewards for. I don't know some some kind of aids level in
in whatever section. This could be something, or you could look at marketing. You want,
or typically as delegate, you want to have the possibility to be able to contact your SPO obviously
to ask questions if something goes wrong. So this is something to consider.
Is there any way for you as a delegate to ask questions to a SPO? So for example,
I run a Telegram group for my delegates. Some have a YouTube channel and post regularly
about updates, maybe. So it depends. But there are also some pools which are completely private
and don't share anything, and just and just and just win with most rewards. So when you have,
for example, a pool with very very high pledge, like 30 million on Plus ADA,
then you can get a little bit more rewards. And some will only look at this
and don't care about anything else. So it depends. And of course, you also look at decentralization.
So do you care about decentralization? I think you should because this is the main point
of blockchain. I think then you should try to dedicate to single SPOs and not to big clusters
of SPOs. Run 20 or more six pools or whatever. And I think what Big Pay is doing with
the staking baskets is really cool. I I think that's yeah. That was one.
That was my next question to ask. Oh, okay. Yeah. If somebody, if somebody can explain to me
about it, because um, I spoke with um Rod um about his pool as well, and he made the suggestion
to perhaps look into those baskets um as a way to potentially. Get some early on delegation
to our pool as well. So if somebody can perhaps delve into that more and how it works and and so on,
I would appreciate it. I'd tell you who would be really good to talk to about the staking baskets is
he's a leader in Midnight. His name's Wardano. He's a community mod for the Atrium Discord. Okay.
Yes, I know I've seen him. Yes. Yeah, I reckon reach out to him and also Cardano Granny.
She's very heavily in that group of people in the Atrium Discord. But I think at the moment
they've just got one staking basket, and they have their own DAO, which they vote on.
The every so often they vote on the SPOs. So if you could get onto the onto the voting, okay. No,
David, I'll reach out to him and and see what he says. Because obviously we have a we have
a clear plan that we walk working towards. So it's just a matter of getting some eyes on
on the pool. Yeah, sweet. Well, yeah, we can definitely hundred percent talk about that. Yeah,
I I can also explain a little bit about it because I'm also part of a stacking basket in Ethereum.
Oh. Yeah, so there, there. Well, I think they have different baskets for different pool sizes.
So I'm in the in the biggest bucket, or the biggest pool bucket, of fifty plus millionaire,
and the idea basically is that you had to have some specific rules for your pools, so you should.
Have this certain level of stake to apply for a certain basket. You should be a single SPO
and some other conditions you had to meet, and then you could apply to be selected.
And there was a voting period. And as was said, I think there may be regularly updates on this.
And then, when you're part of the basket, they they have a smart contract
where people will then have their ADA in, and this smart contract will delegate to all the pools
in the basket some part of it. This is what they took at stake. That's cool. I see AC3s listening.
How you going, mate? So I see we have a question from Dips. If you want to give him a yeah, quick,
what's up, Dips? Yeah, thank you, thank you, Omega. Oh, actually, I I have to introduce all of you
to my friend Shorayev. I can because he's willing to speak. And before I introduce him,
I would like to thank you, Omega, for like hosting these spaces and like. You said
last week also in your space that for you it's more of a discussion to like educate everyone
and to learn something really new and with all these people we have, I mean, some amazing mind.
The community we have. Personally, I would like I would like to also say
that I have been now moderating the Discord server, the Midnight Network Discord server, for
eight months now and. I'm proud to say that the community we have, the Night Forces,
and I mean even the developers and everyone, the whole server, we have
amazing people out there who are working day and night, contributing in their own aspects,
and which is very wonderful to see. The topic also you have chosen today, why Cardano was chosen.
I think when we talk about Midnight, straight away privacy comes in everyone's mind,
and what I also like about Midnight is that it's not built in isolation,
but is built on something which is a foundation already laid down by Cardano,
and The vision that Charles has, and the vision which we all trust, I think we can say
that in the future we are moving towards something which prioritizes privacy
because privacy is something which we all want. Be it an individual, be it a Business organization,
anyone? I mean, even us, us the community. We all want privacy, which Midnight provides.
And on that note, guys, I would like to welcome Shorya, who has been in the crypto space
for I think easily now five to six years. He has worked on various projects in crypto.
He has been closely following Charles also through all his journey for over the years.
And I'm thoughtful that he will have something very diff very his his take will be very difficult,
very interesting to say. And so, Shorya, please, please can you? Yeah, thanks, Sips, for the intro.
I hope I'm audible to everyone. Hey, how are you? We can hear. Thanks for thanks for coming up
and having a chat. Yeah, yeah, of course. Just to you know, lay the context.
I guess I've been more active in the Ethereum and EVM space for the majority of my time in crypto.
Okay, but you know, I've always kept tabs with Charles and Cardano and now Bednight off late.
But I'm still new to the to this, you know, section of the crypto space.
So I'm still learning on you know these privacy networks. Sort of drawing comparisons to, let's say,
your Zcash, Monero, you know, other privacy networks, and how is it not different
with the selective disclosures and everything that? All of us are learning every single day. The,
are you there? I think there are audio problems. Yeah. Yeah. You there? Yeah. Can you guys hear me?
Yeah, I can hear you now. Awesome. I just got a call in the background,
so I got disconnected for a quick second. That's okay. Nice, but yeah,
and this just real quick on this conversation about the staking pools is extremely beneficial to me,
you know, as I'm learning myself. Just a quick question that I had for anyone, you know, on here:
How does slashing work on midnight or, you know, Cardano? Like, if a validator, you know,
unknowingly, you know, does like a wrongful activity, is their stake slashed? Is that a possibility,
or is is there some some something else which is at play here? No, there's no slashing in Cardano.
There's only the yeah the positive incentives in Cardano. So when a pool misbehaves,
delegates will just move off, and they will be yeah typically socially shamed,
and the stuff happens. And we had this in the past when some SPOs did weird stuff
and attacked the chain, that they retired the pool. So I think it would be cool for somebody
that's not familiar to perhaps give some examples as to "Quote unquote bad acting from from a pool.
What does that entail? And like you mentioned, now attacking the chain.
So maybe maybe expand on that. So basically, how you get into the naughty corner?
Is that what you're trying to say? Yeah. Yeah. What do you need to do to get there?
So so everybody knows. Okay, so so so what can you do wrong as an SPO? So as an SPO,
typically you have privy access to some communication, and some instances in the past,
SPOs have used this to the detriment of the mainnet and found, for example, a bad transaction,
which caused some harm and replayed this on mainnet. So this is one instance you can cause harm,
intended or not intended, if you're not careful. Now that could be that. You run multiple nodes.
For example, reliability is my main focus as an SPO. I run not one but multiple block producers,
and when one fails, other will step in automatically. And we could disrupt
or yeah the chain a bit if you misconfigure this, so both block producing nodes would run at
the same time. So this shouldn't happen, obviously. Or you would create forks,
and this is also shown in different explorers. Who is currently the the bad SPO forking the chain
or creating forks? This is something you could do, or you could. I don't know. Do
weird behavior like gain a lot of stake and then raise the fee to 100%
or something crazy like this without announcing? Or you could, in theory,
because the code is open source, you could modify the code and do something strange.
Be not not a honest node. You could because every SPO in Cardano obviously has the mempool,
and every transaction is broadcasted across all the pools, and every node then sees
the same transactions. And in theory, an SPO could, if he wanted, filter the mempool and only allow
certain transactions in and do weird stuff in this. And if this gets yeah noticed,
that would also be bad, obviously, like censorship or anything else. Damn, Chris,
you you are just very knowledgeable. Some would say is a pool full of knowledge. Oh, yeah!
Thank you, 100%. So with with midnight, you know, midnight and Cardano,
they they have shared values. They, you know, yeah, they're they're research first developments,
hey. And you know, they have long term thinking. So when we talk about Cardano with with midnight,
what What comes to your mind, guys? What What do you think about that? When you When you
When you hear Cardano and Midnight, what What do you guys think? Yeah,
I think the one of the main questions we want to ponder about is why Cardano was chosen
when Midnight launches or launched. I think this comes down to many of the things you mentioned of
the similarities of the same fundamental principles on many areas. I think in some areas,
Midnight also uses a different approach, so it is a bit more pragmatic, I think,
than Cardano is in some areas. But it has the same idea of decentralization, certainly,
and I think it's a really smart move for Midnight to leverage Cardano because it can gain
a really good bootstrapping effect through Cardano because you already have
a highly decentralized network. It provides security to Midnight. So the idea is
that when we have exited the current guarded state of federated nodes,
what we have right now on Midnight, eventually we'll have some kind of incentivized test net also
in Midnight, and. And later, I think we will have also a decentralization parameter,
like we had in Cardano, the D parameter, and this will be very low initially, like zero.
Zero means that all the blocks are minted by the federated nodes, and it will transition slowly
to one over time, and eventually all the blocks will be minted by community pools.
And community pools will be those that run both Cardano nodes validators and Midnight validators,
and have them linked, and Midnight node basically uses some kind of indexer.
What indexer we will use in this stage we don't know yet. Yeah, many SPOs hope, myself included,
it won't be DBSync. And what's what's an indexer? Sorry, Chris. Indexer is is a software
which inspects the blockchain and makes a complete record of all the transactions in an easy
to index way. So for some some queries you don't you can and possibly query a live node.
But it would be very inefficient, and some things you can't get anymore. So,
if you want to have the whole history of the chain, and very quickly, for example,
get data on stake snapshots and all the stuff, also for past epochs, and it makes a lot
of sense to have an efficient database, which is a copy of the main ledger in a different structure
for quick querying and indexing. And it's optimized for queries. Midnight needs to ensure,
for example, ah, this pool is actually has this kind of stake, and it's now allowed to make a block
for midnight. So the idea is when this happens that the the stake on Cardano determines the amount
of blocks the midnight validator will mint based on the Ada stake. And this also means
that delegates of AIDA on the Carano side will then earn both AIDA and NITE. That's the idea.
That this this partnership idea. And and and if this kicks off, and and we all hope that it kicks
off, then I think it's also the vision that other blockchains will follow the same pattern.
And so in theory, in the future, SPOs could run not only Scalan on Midnight, but also other chains,
and delegators would get then multiple different tokens as rewards. This is possible.
Just a quick question. So, just to verify, in order to do a Midnight pool in the future,
to my understanding, you will have to have a Cardano pool as well in order to do the Midnight one,
because and and that that could be a very good thing for Cardano. As well,
because it might mean that we can see an increase in in pools coming online as well,
which will help the whole chain. Yeah, it's it's interesting how this will play out in in detail.
So I I don't have all the details yet either, because there are some things hinted at which point
at some changes in the future. So initially, for sure, you will have to have a Cardano node,
and the stake and ADA will determine the number of blocks on midnight. But maybe in the future,
Midnight will also allow staking of Night. So initially, you can't stake Night;
you can only stake ADA. But there's been some chatter about Night also being able to stake,
and maybe a couple of years down, Midnight will decouple from Cardano.
It could decouple if it wanted to. I certainly don't think it's a good idea,
but it's a completely independent Layer One. So it could interfere the couple,
but I think it will always have to have some connection to Cardano.
It will always have to have visibility into actions on the blockchain because it wants to be
a very highly interoperable chain, right? Midnight wants to interface with different chains to add
the privacy layer and to add features. So for this, it needs to have a tight connection,
and Cardano will be the first to benefit from this. And in the future,
it could also be an Ethereum node or a Solana node or a Bitcoin node interfacing with Midnight.
Excellent. Um, I might, I might ask Pete something quickly. Um, mate, um, the opportunities, uh,
like, what opportunities do you reckon you're gonna, what, what do you,
what opportunities do you reckon Midnight's gonna create for Cardano SPOs? What? Are you there,
Pete? Hello? Oh, you fell asleep now. That's okay. Yeah, I can step in.
So I think the main opportunity is to, yeah, to offer additional rewards to delegators.
I think this is very interesting because we know that the rewards have been gone down since Shelley.
So I think when we started, we had like 5.2% API, and it's now down to 2.3 or something.
So it diminishes over time as the reserves deplete, and we currently don't have a good way
to replenish the reserve because transaction volume doesn't really help.
It's too much too slow as opposed to how much stake is being removed each epoch.
But midnight is one very good, I think, use case to add more rewards, which can really help offset
the diminishing rewards on Ada side. How cool is that? That's I think yeah,
it's it's I think it's very cool. I think this will help pools to differentiate between each other
because who will support this, who won't, and so on. And and I think that's a very good reason
why people need to sort of understand Cardano and how to choose SPOs and understand the you know
the rewards and what the saturation means and you know you know the fees because I think
the first time that I staked to someone I was like am I giving these people the you know is this
a one one up cost fee you know what I mean like I sort of didn't really understand what was what
it was all about you know so. For the, you know, obviously people could be coming from
a different chain, and you know they've they've got midnight rewards that they're claiming from
the Glacier Drop, right? But they don't understand midnight. I mean, sorry, Cardano.
So it is great to to be talking about this because, yeah, I really want everyone in our ecosystem,
while in the midnight ecosystem, to understand the security side. Yeah,
and I think it's really interesting. Midnight will soon transition to next stages
and phases of the ITN. As an SPO, I'm also, of course, very closely aligned with this.
I'm also a Nightforce leader in in that ecosystem, and I will obviously also want to run
a Midnight node. This will be a lot of fun, I think. And there's a lot of interesting stuff coming
up. For example, Midnight initially will just run on normal hardware. I actually invested in my own.
Bear Metal Hardware a while ago with enterprise hardware, which is nice.
And I specifically bought this for Midnight back in the day. That's about two years ago.
But now I also learned that eventually Midnight will also probably highly benefit from something
like NVIDIA Spark. So it will be rewritten and optimized to use tensor codes,
which means that the midnight C zero knowledge proofs can be validated by the typical hardware,
which is optimized for AI. And I think this is very interesting, and I can't wait to get my hands
on one of those later on. So you you basically just touched on something that that I discussed with
Sebastian, because they obviously looking into the on-device proofing, yeah,
which is what you are referring to. As soon as they they're able to to crack that. The use case
and and stuff for for midnight, I think, will explode. To be quite honest, I agree,
and I think it's a really really smart move not to move in the same direction as other chains
did with very specialized ASIC hardware, which gets lots of other problems with it.
But just use the hardware which is produced on mass anyway and optimized for AI,
and use the same movement for this, which is really really good idea, I think.
One one question that I want to throw in the pot now. With Midnight's dual token system,
where you have the ability to you generate your dust based on your night holdings,
and you have the option to to delegate your dust to users or somebody for for
so that they can use it. So I'm I'm quite curious to see what
functionalities could possibly be introduced in the future for. The midnight pool operators. So,
say for instance, the a business because one of my ideas that I've been trying to work on is this:
this business will need to have a X amount of night to generate dust in order for the fees
on the platform for the users to be covered. So. I'm curious to see what sort
of business opportunities there might be for for big pools in the future with the dust that
they also generate. Because one of our previous discussions on on this space was around
that dual tokenomics system, and we said in that space as well, the use case
and and so on is still like very much unexplored. I don't think we we realize how How valuable
this will be in the future? Yeah, I agree. I also believe that this duals economics principle
in midnight is a very unique and differentiator, which is very powerful because it means
when you have enough night, you don't have to pay for any transaction on midnight.
Transactions basically are then free because dust is the resource used for transaction fees,
and it will regenerate automatically based on the night you have. And there,
I think a number of opportunities for Businesses in this, the term here is the capacity exchange.
So I think Sunday Labs started implementing one, which is exactly the idea that if you have a lot
of night, but don't right now have the need for this much dust be just being generated yourself,
then you can delegate the dust generation to a capacity exchange, which will in turn give you
some kind of fee for this service you provide, which is another way to earn yield on on night
on night. Then. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, and and and this is exactly what Jink said
that this can be used for any services on Midnight to sponsor basically any service,
so people can interact with Midnight without any fees because the service has
enough night to generate enough dust. And I think that will that will go into the whole.
Planning as well for for midnight to be more web two friendly for businesses
that's trying to build on midnight as well, because if you're smart about it and you have
enough night for for for your platform's users and volume, they don't need to have anything
to do with blockchain. To be quite honest, they can literally just use the the the platform that
you built or the service or product, whatever it might be. And for onboarding purposes,
that that could be very very valuable. Yeah. I was just thinking, how so? If you so, for an example,
you're you're running, you know, everything's all run up and running. You've got a Cardano node,
you've got a a midnight node running. I'm staked to to you, Chris, to the straight pool,
and you're giving you're giving Cardano rewards and night rewards. Will will that be distributed on
the Cardano chain, or will the night tokens be distributed on a different wallet?
Chain like a different on the midnight chain. That's a good question. We don't know yet for sure
how it will work in detail. I assume it it could be on both, but I would assume it will happen on
night on on midnight. Yeah. Yeah. And what's important? You just said that I will distribute
the rewards. This important distinction to make because I'm very aligned with Mika compliance,
and it would be very bad if SPOs would have to hold custody of tokens and distribute them manually
to delegators. Cause then you also so-called CUSP or need something like a banking license
and stuff. So this is not how how it works, fortunately. So it will be automatically distributed in
a way that I as an S people can't influence this. So that's that's
yeah yeah yeah that's good to know because I actually didn't know that.
I thought that the stake pool operator distributed the rewards. There we go. I learned something.
So this is how the protocol works. So basically, when you have a number of delegators,
they all contribute different shares of the total stake. And after the block rewards
have been calculated, the protocol automatically determines which delegator of which pool has
which part of the total stake of this pool at this time and contributes to rewards.
And after subtracting the pool fees, and the the remaining rewards will be distributed to
the apportion of the delegation automatically. This is a very very good design.
And helps us to be MiCA compliant. And this is very good discussions as well, especially
that I'm trying to tailor, you know, speaking to people that have never, you know,
don't really understand, you know, the technology and how everything works.
So now I really appreciate you just, you know, spitting out all the information like that, just,
just so easy. It just means that you're very passionate, and I really appreciate you jumping on,
on your lunch break to speak to us. Yeah, and I think this is also interesting to discuss regards
to DeFi in Cardano because it's so easy to delegate stake and earn completely risk-free stake on top
of rewards. I think many people are very careful and hesitant to invest anything in in DeFi
because here they have much higher risk, which is another reason why I'm very excited
about the Pogen proposal. I was very sad when it didn't make it, but it's such a good business idea
that I'm happy that the team will move ahead anyway. So it's not, so it's now not
the Catalan Treasury profiting from this, but a venture capitalist. But that's how it is.
But at least it's being built because I want to use it myself. Yeah, I did.
I did hear Charles today in his AMA speak about it. Someone brought up a question.
So for people that have only just heard Pogan before, what what is that? Yeah,
so I think this is a very interesting new way to do DeFi. When you look at
the current DeFi landscape, and I think pretty much all the blockchains,
they all follow the same pattern, which is very susceptible to market crashes.
So you hear all the time that people lose all the Positions when the market dumps very unexpectedly,
which is called margin calls. So you have margin credit markets, and Apogon implements
multiple things. So one of the three dimensions being implemented is the DeFi kernel,
which was created by Rusty, who is an economist who is very aligned to Cardano and UTXO,
because he believes that the The counting model we use in Cardano is perfectly suited for
the DeFi kernel, which will allow a composable, bidirectional, non-custodial, non-margin DeFi.
This is a lot of to take in, but it means that you can add DeFi yield on top of delegation yield.
You can do this non-custodial, so you don't actually have to send your token somewhere just to make
an offer. And it doesn't use margin rules. So when, for example, you borrow something, some Bitcoin
or whatever, it won't liquidate automatically if the Bitcoin prices dump, but only if the
if the lender if the lender doesn't doesn't pay up. This is how TradFi works for for centuries,
basically, and and all the business in TradFi works like this. And for example,
I don't know why crypto never adopted this and chooses other way, but it's a very Speculative,
heavy, and risky, and I don't want to do this. But the DeFi kernel is completely different
and much more secure and safe. And this is what I want to use myself and play with.
And Charles said himself that when when it's live, he will put 50 Bitcoin in just to show
that he also trusts this concept that it won't be liquidated. I think this this is the major point,
which is very interesting. And they will have the second thing they implement is
the Bitcoin mirroring. So they will not have a typical bridge, but they will basically lock
the UTXOs on Bitcoin side and create Bitcoin on Midnight side or Cardano side,
and then you can use this in DeFi. Yeah, right. So you could potentially have shielded transactions
with the Pogen proposal. Exactly. Yeah. So I think. Wow. So I'm not sure exactly
where the Midnight will be mirrored, but I think it will be mirrored on Midnight
for these privacy features. And so you can have private trades, so nobody can copy your trades.
This also being discussed in the DeFi kernel concepts there's a web page on GitHub on this. Wow,
really cool. What you want to have basically is you want to have private trades,
but you want to have an open order book to have price finding, but you don't have to have
the insight in who traded what, which wallet. Hmm. Yeah, that's this is. This is the second thing.
So, and initially when Polygon came up, I wasn't so sure about the this this bridge with BitVM,
but I think this is very interesting because this also has a lot of tax advantages. So,
when you stop DeFi at some point and want to move your Bitcoin around,
you can always undo the yields option, and then you get back your original original UTXOs.
So they yeah, because all the changed. Yeah, because it won't trigger a tax taxable. Yeah,
because it's exactly yeah because because of the dust, the um the transactions are paid by the dust.
Yeah, and the original Bitcoin doesn't change, so it's not wrapped around.
Because if you use any other protocol, typically they they will create wrapped Bitcoin,
and you move your Bitcoin to some kind of smart contract or anything, and and or you burn it,
and then you get something different back. And this is a taxable event because you you swap
basically tokens. That's true. Don't own Pogen, and the third thing they implement is
the commercial part, where they have some real world asset feature.
For Bitcoiners to actually get yield, and this is the commercial part, which is interesting.
And the idea is basically to have a button in Bitcoin wallets, eventually,
where you can have a big button, get yield for me. Yep. So you could sort of say, yeah,
swap over with that button. That's cool. Yeah, and bundled with bubble fees,
you can also ensure what Charles mentioned that a Bitcoiner can then. Pay fees in Bitcoin,
receive yield in Bitcoin, and only ever touch Bitcoin. But under the hood,
any the many transactions are being triggered on both Cardano and Midnight. Yeah,
there's there's been so many great proposals that have just not come through that definitely 100%
could help Cardano. But I don't want to turn this space into a governance space.
So let's let's yeah let's deviate from that. I wonder if Pete's back. Pete, are you back? Zach,
do you mind if I share our posts about our pool on the jumbotron? So if somebody wants to go look at
it, they know where to go. Yeah, hundred percent. Awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah, if yeah,
if you're running a state pool, just drop it in the comments. Yeah, I'm back. Oh.
You've had a busy day. You've you you had that really good interview with Wanchain, I believe. Yeah,
yeah, that went for a little bit longer than I expected, but was good conversation talking about
some interesting historic times through the Kadama ecosystem. Yeah, what's been happening over
the last five years? Yeah, couple of highlights, couple of low point points, but you know,
it's it's been good. It's been a good journey. Yeah, that was cool. You were talking about.
I thought I might just bring this up because I've been hearing you talk about this thing that
you're building. Or I think it's rewards for doing certain tasks. I can't remember
what it was called. Yeah. So I I just call it leaderboard because that's essentially what it is in
the grand scheme of things. But it's a replication of Zealy and Galaxy.
But neither of those platforms cater for the Cardano ecosystem. It doesn't do any
like transaction tracking or anything like that. So I built this one specifically for Cardano.
I can tie in other ecosystems, other afterwards, like you know, midnight or whatever.
But it's a space where projects can submit tasks and activities that users can do,
and then based on seasons, I'll run it like you know, every two months or something.
People can come on board. Perform all the various tasks. Learn about DeFi. Learn about staking.
Delegate to a dRep. You know, try and decentralize the network that way,
and all those little activities that you can do and track on on chain,
and then reward users for that activity and progress through the ecosystem.
So it it all came about because various people within the governance space. Well,
I I had a proposal that was up, and you know, it was about creating videos
for the Cardano ecosystem. But people wanted to know what video. Converts over to a new wallet.
Does this video that you put up, Pete? Does that actually convert to a new wallet?
I don't believe that any of it does. I I can show from historic stats,
like my state pool went oversaturation from my video tutorials that you know yeah people
it it did onboard people and it can only be that because that's all you've been doing
right yeah yeah it's it's promoting the pool and you know if it goes oversaturation then it works um
but essentially now I I want to be able to track that through through the clickthroughs
on the videos all the way down to onchain metrics so I'm I'm tracking that.
Call to action for the videos, call to actions within the video descriptions, UTM tag links for
Google Analytics tracking, and that will pass the data all the way through to the tracking platform,
the leaderboard platform. Users will register a wallet on there and then perform certain actions.
So I can then track the whole process from video call to action all the way to TBL, essentially.
Bit of a privacy, you know. Not breach, but there is a privacy tracking
throughout that whole process. But you can make yourself anonymous and whatnot. Yeah,
but you got to remember as well that wallets, whatever it is, you got to remember as well.
Like we've been using PayPass for however long, right? Just trusting another company
with our information. So yeah, it's not if if you can trust some random company, right?
You should be able to trust the blockchain. Yeah, I know what you mean.
It's it's like we we have our mobile providers like Optus here in Australia that get hacked
and leaked all of our Phone, financial data, credit cards, passports, and Medicare cards all online.
But there's copies of my passport online, and I can't go through KYC in some platforms
because my passport has been compromised. So I caught up the passport company here in Australia,
and they said you need to get a new passport. There's nothing we can do. So great. But anyway,
that's like the the high level of like you know privacy and data breaches on you know on
the biggest grand scheme of things. I'm just tracking what you click. And you know,
I was when you were talking about that in the one chain space, which was which is actually really.
I encourage people to listen to that one. It's really cool. But when I was listening,
I was thinking, damn, there is so many projects on midnight that could utilize
your Zilli leaderboard. That you're not Zilli, but leaderboard. To you know, promote their.
Obviously, they're they're new to the space, and you know they probably haven't built anything
before, and they're building something now. And and say, for example, they're in
Midnight Build Club, and you know they've built something really cool.
They can chuck some some yeah some things up on there for people to you know spread the spread
the love. Yeah, they can throw up a like a a night. Token reward pool for performing
certain tasks on there, and you know I'll add that in. It can't be too hard to wire in replications
of what I've done to track transactions on the the night side. Actually,
that that'd be a lot harder. Yeah. Because it's all private. Yeah. Okay, I gotta think about.
We gotta think about that one. But but the initial idea about the rewarding incentives
for you know doing tasks. And being paid in, you know, Cardano or Midnight or I don't know,
whatever you want to be paid in. If you want to get paid in snack, I guess, or something,
it's really cool. I think that's a good idea for us, and um, especially now
that um has been announced that um there potentially could be a Cardano Discord. I mean,
we could cross-pollinate there. Yeah, that's a strange idea. There's sure fine,
but we can have another Kadama Discord. There's like three of them that exist. Yeah, but yeah, okay.
There are some. Yeah, already. We'll see. Yeah, you're already in there. I'm in there too.
I don't know where it is. I know I'm in there. Oh, well, you know what? If it
if it ends up being like Midnight's Discord, it it will be a lovely place because. Yeah, ever
since you know, learning about midnight, jumping in, becoming an ambassador,
it's been a place where I go every single day to talk to my new friends that I've met, and yeah,
I enjoy it. What do you think, Pete? Are you there, mate? So I think I muted myself
when I was talking. That happens. Yeah. But yeah, the vibe between the Midnight Discord and
the Kadane Discord is very different because, you know, Jack bought in all those ambassadors,
and there's a lot of activity between those people, and it's kind of like a little marketing engine,
a little marketing hive through all those ambassadors that have been bought in.
And I think it's very different. I think it's also the the no bads vibe rule in the server,
and no yeah, that's and no price discussion. The price discussion brings a lot of bad vibe,
so I like that. And if you're if you're a spammer and you're in the midnight fucking Discord,
watch out for Jenks, eh, mate? Yeah, he will ban you. He will get rid of you.
I found some some new powers in this server. I wonder. I think. Yeah. Hey, hey, Chris. Yeah,
I think it's very interesting, and I kind of get the value of having a different group from HomeX,
where you can't have central control to remove fudders. And even paid fuddlers, I think. In
recent weeks, we have seen some of the media with very clear agendas to write out of context stories
on Cardano to make Cardano look bad, which is obviously paid by competitors.
And and stuff like this happens all the time, and you can't really do anything about this on X,
but on any other platform like Discord or Telegram, in theory, you can have a very high moderation
or very strict moderation to remove this quickly. Yeah, this helps, of course, because yeah,
bad news obviously have a tendency to spread very far and very quick. And and especially
if you know you you run a stake pool or you you know you're You're very passionate about something,
right? And you see all this negativity. It does have an impact on your mental health, right?
Seeing bad things said about you or stuff like that is—it's not on. And no one should be feeling,
you know, upset or out of place just because they believe in something is going to be, you know,
is going to change the world, right? So I do believe that what he's, what he,
what I mean is what Charles is saying about the discord, like creating a new discord.
I do understand where he's coming from, and you know what? If he does. Create one,
I will be in there, and I will be giving good vibes because I understand what I I finally understand
what Cardano is and how it works, and and just how easy it is to move, um, you know,
financial stuff across without, you know, any security issues, and you know,
and without worrying about removing, you know, you. Usually, when you you know you put money aside
to to you know create interest, it usually takes a couple of days to to take that money back out,
right? Well, with a with Cardano, it's liquid staking, so you can move it freely wherever you want,
whenever you want. You know, that's the one thing that I just absolutely loved about it
when I first started playing around with Cardano was the fact that I could just move from
a cold storage to a hot wallet and still be in the same stake pool on both sides. You know,
like it's yeah, it's really good. So definitely, if there is a if there is a Discord
decided to be created, um, I will be in there and I'll be talking and meeting new people
and learning the tech. I just want to add a point with all the the clips that we've seen recently.
The negative clips around all the fudsters like chiming in on on the Cardano side of things.
I I have to say on X because of that. Creator economy that they built.
So the more impressions you get, the more chance you get paid, and the more views you get,
the more you get paid as well. So there's there is that desire for these KOLs on other ecosystems
to dunk on Cardano because they know they will get a reaction out of us.
So anytime Charles posts something up on X or posts something up on YouTube,
it's very easy for them to grab that, create a clip out of it, create a reaction video,
and get the views. Because then we react, and then they get paid for it. Yeah,
they get paid either way. They get either paid via their KOL sponsorships,
or they get paid by the X algorithm. So what what I want to moving this off will kind of kill that.
Pete, what I want to add to your statement now is I did a post now I don't know a few days ago
or something. My my weeks bit of a blur, but it was to call out like big media outlets on on X,
and specifically CoinBureau. And anybody that I don't follow them at all anymore
because of all of the misinformation or out of context posts that they do.
Because obviously they're quite a big account, over a million plus followers. So
whenever they do something, it's gonna get interactions on it. Yeah, but the thing is, mate,
that's that's their problem, right? And you know, so we no, I get it, but yeah, the thing is,
you you. There's a history, especially with them specifically, where they've posted stuff which is
was blatant lies, and then after the fact, they had to. Take down the post.
So that has happened before, and I think we're getting to a point
where people are starting to realize that some of these big outlets or slightly larger accounts
that that do these sort of posts are just talking nonsense, basically.
And they people are starting to mute them or block them or whatever, which is good because at
the end of the day, it will hurt their pockets. It's all noise. So I'm here to.
I just focus on the tech, the great people. And what's happening ahead?
None of that stuff comes up on my on my news feeds because I don't stop at the scroll.
I just keep going. So it doesn't really faze me. Hey, they can like people can say whatever
they want about things, but if if you believe in something
or you really enjoy you know doing something, you just do it. You don't worry about anyone else.
And yeah, I can understand what you're talking about with you know the the fud and stuff,
but that's X, mate. And we're gonna we're gonna talk about
Why Cardano was chosen, and why why we're so involved with Midnight. That's why we're here.
Maybe on the Midnight side, I also can say that the the privacy aspect is so important
and has been neglected most of the time. I've seen so many data leaks and times,
and it's quite the norm now to get an email regularly. Oops, we lost all the data.
So this is really comical to this point, and what really annoys that still happens.
So I can only recommend to get to a service which will request clean up the data leaked from you.
There are actually services specialized on this, and it's funny when you look at this.
The whole industry is completely corrupt. I think they specifically say
that some data brokers they have to write regularly to clean up the data
because they will just take it down after they are requested to take it down by law.
But then put it back up after some expiry date automatically, so they have to repeatedly. Yeah,
those type of services are just a money pit. Yeah, but don't think they do anything.
It's just for the. I don't want to be disrespectful, but it's for the less intuned customers
or the older customers that might not understand the full full scope of what is going on. Yeah,
and I'm I'm really curious myself how Midnight will change this, and I think there's
a very high potential. Obviously, the the initial thing that Midnight will help is Sensor make
transaction private. This is also pretty interesting, especially coming from Cardano,
because I recently did an little experiment with a different privacy chain, Monero,
and I kind of liked the experience, and it was very interesting. And I can't wait to see something
similar on Midnight. But this is just one very basic foundation of Midnight.
I think the more interesting parts will be in the smart contracts and the smart compliance
and selective disclosure principles, where you can yeah only share what you want to share
and and remove what you have shared later on. This will be fun. So what what I've got out of out
of tonight is basically Cardano. Cardano, you know, the security, you know,
the security isn't built overnight, and you know. Building a secure blockchain is really hard.
So the reason Midnight's chosen Cardano is basically because they've got thousands of operators.
They've got years of operational experience, like yourself, straight. The the The infrastructure
of Cardano is proven. It works. It runs, and it's been it's been battle tested with lots
and lots of different things that have happened over the years, i.e. A poison transaction.
And that creates the strongest decentralization, and I believe that is the ground of of what
Midnight needed for this. So, yeah, I think that's that sums up why Cardano was chosen.
It was a hundred percent the security, and the fact that it was it was running from day one,
and it hasn't stopped. What do you think, Chris? Yeah, totally agree. It is always funny
this discussion on has Cardano been down ever as an SPO. I would also say no,
Cardano has never been down. It has only slowed down a couple of times, but has never been down.
So it would have been down if we would ever have come to a point where we SPOs have to do something
like truncate the ledger or something, stuff like this, to fix restart the chain,
which is very common in other chains. So the different dimensions of blockchain availability.
So Cardano is has a perfect track record on on this, on my point of view. So I fully agree,
and and this is very important because if you remember what Cardano is about,
being basically the financial operating system of the world, you can't try to be this
without reliability. So this is very important, and for this you need decentralization
because you don't want to trust anyone, and Cardano is perfectly positioned for this.
So I think when we have all the capabilities with privacy from Midnight
and non-margin credit markets. I will be ready to move some Bitcoin to this,
and I think others will be too. So I think this could be a really big liquidity movement for us.
It could be very interesting. Well, it's funny you say that because I'm actually going through
the process of setting up my self-managed super fund to buy some Bitcoin. Yeah,
and I think I'm going to do the same thing. What you're talking about, utilize that Bitcoin,
you know, to generate rewards. Yeah, it's so interesting because Bitcoin is the king, obviously.
And for the longest time, I didn't hold Bitcoin, but eventually, I got some. And it's, I think,
important if you are in crypto to have some Bitcoin to actually be part of the original coin
and to experience what happens there. And that is also my intention. And this is
the most exciting thing ever for Bitcoin, I think, to have a good yield opportunity.
This will be fun for sure. And I hope many. I hope many wallets will adopt this button.
Get me yield. This will be fun. At least we'll be first to assume. Yeah. Yeah.
So you've got your Bitcoin to hold value. You've got Cardano for the the settlement,
the governments, and the security. And then you've got Midnight for the privacy
and selective disclosure. Yeah. And any other partner chains, I'm guessing, will have XRP jump in.
Um, I think there's a lot of people in the Midnight this Discord that are building really hard with
with XRP. And yeah. Um, I love I love seeing that as well. Like, that's cool. Hey. Yeah,
I also really like the the midnight approach of the Glacier Drop to at eight different protocols
on seven ecosystems to to stop the tribalism and to invite other ecosystems to partake in this
in the same movement. And I think this is really helpful. And I'm really glad to see finally
this breaking of silos and to work together with other chains. This is really nice to see. Yeah.
All right. So. We're coming up to it's nine thirty now. Is there anyone that wants to jump up?
I see AC3 has been in the whole time. He runs a state pool and is in the midnight Discord.
You're welcome to come up and have a chat, mate, if you want to come up. I'm not sure what time.
We also have another Australian state pool down there, eight ball. Ah, yeah. Do you want to jump up,
mate? I've met him numerous times on his trek up to Brizzy in the. Brisbane meetups, Cadano meetups.
So thank you for always coming along there too. All right, I'll um, I'll bring him up.
See if he wants to come up. There we go. Send you an invite there. Send AC three.
What time is our uh midnight stuff? I think it's uh ten thirty. I'll just double check. Okay,
we've got a bit more time. Yeah, yeah. Just um. It's like I really, I really wanted to do this space
because, like I said before, like so many people in midnight, you know, they've got their, you know,
their tokens from, you know, holding XRP or holding another chain, right? So when they come over,
you know, and they want to start earning yield, or maybe they've bought some Cardano
because they've realized, you know, how cool it is to understand stake pools and, you know,
all that sort of stuff. I think it's cool. I'll just see what there's a lot to it, and and Chris,
thank you for explaining it so well as well. There's a lot of detail and nuances,
but you did a fantastic job of explaining it all. You're most welcome. Thanks.
Do you guys have any questions between each other as SPOs? Yeah, I forgot to check
when the potential hard fork date is. I know it's looming in the back of my mind,
and I know I have to upgrade my pools as soon as possible. But how soon?
I think it should be very soon, rather soon. So I think the schedule would be before
the big summer break. They want to have the hard fork. So if you haven't upgraded yet,
it's now the best time to do so. Yes, it's winter here, so I'm wondering when people in Europe
and summer take their in North America take their break. So I would have thought it'd be around
the World Cup right now. Yeah, so I I would assume the hard fork will be sometime in July,
July before August. Okay. Might as well just try and get it done over the weekend
before anything bad happens. Just got to find those windows, those opening slots
where I can minimize downtime. Yeah, this is also fun. A part of being an SPO, actually.
When you mention this, when you upgrade anything, that you know how to make a rolling update,
so you don't miss any block while doing so, which is fun. But this is much easier, of course,
if you have redundancy, like I have. Otherwise, you have to wait for a long time of yeah,
no blocks basically. Yeah, I used to have a backup block producer node that I'd run in
the background, and you know, if the if one falls over, the other one would switch up.
Then I was double minting at one point in time years back. Yeah, and pull tool points that out.
So I I try to reconfigure that and make it work better, but I I just didn't get the config
perfectly right the way I wanted. Yeah, this we discussed before actually. Yeah, Tom. Fun times.
Tom, you got your hand up. Was that a ghost hand? No, yes, sir. I just wanted to let you guys know
because it was brought up. 51 minutes for our next meeting, and I was gonna also thank everybody
for coming before I bounce. On top of that, wanted to give a shout out to the Australian Telegram.
Like to try to get as many members as we can built up in that, and want to. Oh yeah,
Pete, you have your push-up challenge. Was wondering how that was going.
Oops. Of course, I started talking again with the mute button on. Just leave it off, mate. Yeah,
I tend to breathe into the mic and people get annoyed. Yeah, it's going really well.
I I don't think it was yesterday. It was the day before. I had to do 170, so I had to do 170
and then 130 the following day, and it just absolutely killed my strength workouts.
But today is 167, and I'll start that during the midnight calls. I should smash it out
in half an hour or so. Very nice, very nice. Yeah, man, I wish I could do those push-ups with you,
brother. But I, I supported in in finances. My legs can't do that. Ah, thank you. Um,
and really appreciate. Very last thing. Thank everybody. Much love to everybody. I got to bounce
and go prepare for that next meeting. And oh yeah, welcome Jinx to the Midnight Discord mod. Yeah,
I heard you mentioned her. Yeah, he is definitely the he's he's the spam killer. Yeah, hell yes.
Any scammers coming in there? I just hit hit them out of there. So Tom, yes sir. Me and Dunk,
we're we're talking about a giveaway in the midnight in the Australian Telegram.
So we're thinking two hundred two hundred people. Once we reach that, we're going to do a
like a lottery system with the with everyone's name, and we're going to give away a midnight hoodie.
But it's gonna be with the Australian flag on the side. That is sweet. I'm thinking about it. Yeah,
I told you, I'm up. I've already bought 1500 nite for the cause. So just let me know. I'm all down.
We're gonna grow this thing together. Yeah, well, we could give away 1500 nite,
but someone would have to give us something back. So they would have to one, like
and follow our favorite leader, Pete, and straight. For sure, for sure. And like the and yeah,
and like the midnight X account. And then they're in the draw. I reckon.
Maybe we should do something like that. What do you reckon? That sounds good. Hey, I got a bounce.
Forty-eight minutes away. I'll see y'all at the meeting. No worries. Yeah. So sorry to spring
that on you, Pete. But yeah, we're thinking about doing a a giveaway to get to two hundred. Oh,
he's gone. Hates left. What do you think about that, Jinx? No, I like it. Um, there's always um,
it's always good to have some sort of community engagement with a giveaway um
at certain mile milestones. Um, yeah. Just, just, just to sprinkle some excitement on on top
of it as well. So, yeah, we we might um for for our space um tomorrow morning as well.
We might um also do some NFT giveaways. Okay, that's that's right. Tomorrow,
nine nine a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. Yeah, nine o'clock for you, seven o'clock for me,
and it's obviously evening time for the US. So, but yeah, just to do some surprise giveaways
every now and again is is very nice to do. Yeah, hundred percent. And I like I I want to grow
the Telegram because it's. Let's put it to bluntly. It's very hard to grow an eco a community
inside a community. But I really, really want to get as many Australians involved
and just understand understand the tech because it it will eventually be coming. It will be coming.
Yes, no, I agree with what you're saying, and that that's we already have
a few few specific region telegrams as well. To my understanding, we have a Vietnam one,
there's a Indian one, and a Turkish one. If I'm if I'm not mistaken, I might might might have one
or two wrong there. No, I think yeah, there is. There's about I think there's about nine telegrams.
Yes. Um, but yeah, the Australian one, we really want to build it. And the thing
as the Australian one can be, it's nice because it can touch base with some of the Asian countries
as well because of time zones. So if if if you if the Telegram grows, the space
will hopefully grow as well, and then you can do like a multi-region space as well. So that yeah,
well, is something. I was thinking maybe we could do some sort of like you know answer a question
about midnight. Get in the draw for you know a certain amount of night, um, something like that.
But yeah, me and me and Dunk are working on it. Awesome, looking forward to it. Yeah,
because as well, midnight's not it's not just for Cardano; it's for every chain. Yes, definitely.
Yeah. So, anyone, anyone in Australia. Once, once, um, the the um. The upgrades and stuff
that they are planning for, like Q3, Q4, is coming. Things will heat up very quickly. I think. Yeah,
hundred percent. I did see a message somewhere. It was talking about midnight being a vampire,
a vampire attack. So midnight and and and Cardano, like they're they're partner chains,
so they've got cross-chain observability and multi-chain signatures. So They they work together.
They the that one one is the security side and one is now the privacy side,
which was always been missing with with Cardano, and it's just such a strategic great idea
because there's so many things that that we can utilize this for, right?
And If I wanted to jump on the internet and I wanted to create something as a business, you know,
I say this every week, but if I wanted to create something, you know, I can use utilize
the Cardano Cardano blockchain with Midnight to create transactions that are private and and secure.
So it's not it's not a vampire attack. It's it they work together. I think what
they're trying to say is at the moment because it's a federated. A federated stage.
There's only a one, and this is what I'm trying to say to everyone. It's like I don't want
people to move any night tokens over to cut ah to midnight yet, because it's it is only one way
at the moment. Because it's in a federated stage, um, and the reason for that federated stage
is to to make sure everything's running properly and and working good.
The next stage will be SPOs jumping in and starting up and starting. I think there will be a couple
of updates then. By then. And then it'll be interoperable. Things things don't happen overnight,
and that's that's just the truth. Rome was not built in a day, and we we need
everyone needs to understand that. People putting all this stuff out, saying these things,
are just is just nasty, and don't actually understand what's going on. So, if anyone wants to,
you know, talk about it, we can talk about it,
but we need to talk about it civilly and and and understand things rationally.
How did how did that sound, Pete? Was that did that did I hit the nail on the head there?
Sounded good, mate. I'll just read out the definition of a vampire attack as well for people
that maybe new to that kind of term. But a vampire attack in crypto is an aggressive plan
where a new project offer often a copy of an old one offers better deals to attract users
and their money. So that's that's why people were describing Midnight as a vampire attack
because they're offering what Kadana can do, just add on some privacy and here's
some shiny new tokens. Come over. That's the idea. Yeah, chinks. I need to drop off here now.
I need to get the kids in in bed. It's sleeping time and story time and all of that stuff.
So I want to say thank you to everybody and and straight thank you for all the insights.
The Pool of knowledge that you have brought to this discussion. I really enjoyed it.
I've learned a thing or two, and definitely, if I have some more questions,
I will reach out to you on on the midnight server as well. So, yeah, thank you very much. You know
where to find me. Sure. Yes, yes, hundred percent. And Pete, if you are awake tomorrow morning
and you want to see some other midnight or Cardano stuff that we've been building on.
Drop by our space. Obviously, you can just lurk if you if you want to,
but I think it's it's going to be a good one for for for the community. So, but thank you very much,
everybody, and catch you next week, same time, same place. Thanks, Jinx. Thanks, Jinx. Thank you.
Bye, bye. Bye, mate. I'm gonna have to drop off as well. Gonna finish off this video upload
before the space the space meeting again tonight. Thanks for running. I think yeah same for me.
I think I think as well. Like there wouldn't be many people jumping in because I think
the SpaceX IPO dropped. So I think there's a lot of hype. Yeah. So it might be a bit quiet tonight,
but I've enjoyed every second of this, and it's just great to have some people
that understand so much about Cardano. So thank you very much, Pete, and I'll see you in the.
The midnight Discord stage thingy, yeah. Yep. Right, old mate. See y'all. Bye, guys. See y'all. Hi,
thank you. So yeah, I think I might wrap this up now because we've yeah we've under
we've we've spoken about everything. I think I think we've I think we've covered everything. Please,
if you don't understand anything about, you know, SBOs, Cardano, or you're a bit confused
about something, like, you know, choosing a pool, or you don't understand what something means,
just yeah, sing out. And if you're in the Midnight Discord, by all means, tag myself, and yeah,
we can have a chat. I'm pretty sure everyone here would be happy to help. So, yeah.
Thanks everyone for staying. Oh, oh my God, Cobra's here and and night markets. I didn't realize.
And oh my God, thanks guys for supporting. And um, thanks, thanks, Eight Pro, thanks JP,
thanks everyone for jumping in. I'll see you guys in the Nightforce meeting. Um,
and a big thank you to Straight Pool. Thank you for jumping in and talking
and explaining so much stuff and being a good great co-host. It was fun.
Can do this again ahead of time. Yeah, no worries. Yeah, I'll figure out what
we're going to talk about next week, and then I'll drop it in the Discord. But yeah,
this was definitely a very important thing to talk about, especially
when people don't really understand how things work. So, no, thank you very much.
You're a world of knowledge, and I'll see you in the next one. Bye, guys. Bye. See ya. See ya.
