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Yeah, brother. Thanks, Tony. Well, everybody knows who we are down here in our community anyway,
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with that i want to get right into it we got a good friend here crypto crow we're going to be
talking some midnight for all of you that don't know who crypto crow is i think most of you do
But Crypto Crow, Jason, welcome to the show, my friend. What's going on?
What's going on? I never use spaces, so I'm always trying to figure it out as I go along.
But yeah, I'm here. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, man, of course, brother. So, Crow, before we get into this whole midnight piece, why don't you just take five minutes, you know, a few minutes and just let everybody know who you are and what you got going on, just in case we got new people that might not have heard of you and your channel and what you have done for the Cardano community.
Yeah, I'm basically just an old, outdated fool on YouTube.
You know, like, I've been talking, rambling, yammering about crypto since 2017.
You know, according to Grok, I'm like the first YouTuber to talk about Cardano.
So I at least have that claim to fame.
You know, I work on a lot of different things from AI to, you know, I've been day trading a lot lately.
Yeah, I just, I do a lot of different things. It's really hard to pin down.
I mean, my main thing now is I've been doing a lot more content on my CryptoCrow.io website.
Just a lot of stuff that I can't put on YouTube because of the algorithm, so I talk about everything on there.
Yeah, I mean, that's kind of it in a nutshell.
I've been a big Cardano guy really since the very beginning when I read the white paper.
And it's been an uphill battle since then, but we're finally getting to a place where I could start laughing at the trolls.
Well, when you say that, man, you know, yeah, I saw that post you put with Croxed with 2017, but, you know, you're very involved in the Cardano space.
So you're just not posting about it. You're a user. You're a builder.
Can you talk a little bit about, like,
some of the stuff you're doing on the chain before we we get into like midnight itself like
because a lot of people probably may not know everything you've you've done with that chain
i mean right now we're building a game uh we're building a trading card game called wargroom
and um you know we're basically using cardano for obviously it's an nft based card game but it
We're going to have an interactive world map and people are going to fight for territory and those are going to produce resources in the form of NFTs.
You're going to be able to combine those to create gear and other things to, you know, further build your deck.
That's like the main thing now.
And, you know, my lead architect is he was the architect for the NFL football or NFL Fantasy League football draft app.
And we've got a guy on the team as an advisor who worked on like XCOM 2 and some other big stuff.
So like we've been working on that for kind of for a while.
And, you know, I've done so many things through the years, man.
It's hard to like that's the most recent.
That's what I'm doing now, really, for the most part.
are involved in the staking platform, right?
Oh yeah, I've been a stake pool operator since the beginning.
I think actually since 20, as soon as it became available,
we got the note up, but it took about four or five months after it was possible.
But it's been running solid ever since then.
And we are, I'm pretty sure we're already ready for midnight and everything.
And that's a great segue, Crowe, right into, like, so what I wanted to do is,
two, my mission tonight is twofold.
One, let everybody who you are and what you're doing over there,
later on we'll get into that, because I, of course, I joined your website,
and the way that you formatted that and broke it down into sections,
that's cutting edge, man.
But I want to make sure...
We keep going back to that, so everybody knows how to get involved with you, because, like he said, guys, it's not just Crow.
I mean, he's got stuff on motivation, he's got stuff on politics, he's got...
You get to know Crypto Crow, the man and the person, which I personally think, you know, I kind of lean into...
High character people, people that I believe are high character people, good hearted people that are just not in it for the money.
And I found Crow to be one of those personally, so we want to definitely bring up that website throughout the night.
But we wanted to lean into the midnight, the midnight token, the whole midnight update.
And who better to talk about it with us than you?
So just for the audience, Crowe, what exactly is midnight?
And what is Cordano doing?
What's the function of this thing called midnight?
Well, thank you for all that.
There's so much to midnight that is exciting on so many levels.
And, you know, when I first read the white paper,
I was so, you know, this is weird, because people see me as this 7-foot MMA guy covered in tattoos, and then they see me get emotional about the dumbest stuff.
This is the first time I've also heard your opening, telling everybody not to cuss, so now I know to be careful.
You know, and they just see this giant ogre, and then I, you know, and then I get emotional on YouTube here and there, or in person if I'm giving a lecture or something, and I'm just an emotional guy, and I think a big part of my emotion stems from how I think things are going to affect other people, whether that's an angelic voice on TV, or, you know, somebody who's telling their story, or whatever, I get emotional about things that I think are emotional, right?
And I get emotional when I witness excellence.
And when I was reading the Midnight White Paper, it actually made me a little emotional because I'm reading this and you know, you have to understand after all of these years of seeing Cardano get trolled by competitive chains or, you know, their fanboys or, you know, the people I'm making a bunch of money on this meme coin, you know, this turd coin or whatever.
And it's just like, it's so laughable.
And then they go and they mock something as complex and global as Cardano because of, you know, whatever their narrative is at the moment.
And then you see something like Midnight get ready to launch, and then you go through the white paper and you see the possibilities and the potential.
Basically, people like to sum it up as a privacy layer for Cardano, and then basically any other coins that are going to be working in conjunction with Cardano.
Obviously, Cardano is interoperable, its focus is to be interoperable, and ultimately become the brain of Cardano.
multiple chains across the globe.
And then Midnight is this partner chain
that's effectively going to act as the privacy layer
for all of them that need it.
And Midnight itself is going to operate
with Night token and Dust.
And Night is really just the token that generates Dust.
Dust is going to be the token that people use
for transaction fees and things of that nature.
And you can't get Dust without Night.
And when night token is basically sitting on your wallet, it's creating dust tokens that if you try to transfer out, they start to decay over time.
And so there are going to be so many different business opportunities for big night holders.
to you know like it even says it in the white paper and it's funny because as i'm i'm looking at
this i was reading the top part of the white paper and i'm like people are going to lease their
wallets out to be able to generate dust tokens for dapps and in companies that want to utilize this
as a privacy layer but they maybe they don't have enough night or they you know whatever the case is
they need more to basically cover all of the use on their chain or on their application so they're
to generate this dust that they can
utilize on chain for their own apps.
man, a few more pages down, and it
that exact, you know, opportunity
Ultimately, think of it as the privacy layer
for basically everything from Bitcoin, XRP,
a lot of these tokens that are going to utilize it
and ultimately be a part of Cardano.
So when I go to, say, buy an NFT on the Cardano blockchain,
right now I go and I use my Cardano and I buy an NFT, right?
Go to JPEG store, buy it.
impact using night for that transaction would is that going to be possible or am I still going to use Ada you wouldn't use night you'd use dust right so I'm sorry yeah dust dust sorry about that yeah I mean think of dust like the currency but it's it shields the transactions
And so it depends like I don't know 100% yet exactly how that's going to work.
I think it's going to be a choice that's going to be, you know, is this are you trying to I think it's going to depend on how what you're doing was developed.
Was it developed to utilize midnight as a network?
If it was, then you're going to have that functionality to shield the transactions and keep the data, keep the metadata secure.
All of that like am I going to be able to go out and buy an NFT tomorrow that was minted two years ago using the network and you know protect my identity and all that I don't know 100% if that's true.
i'm not i really don't know um but ultimately for you know development from you know when
night when midnight launches people are going to be developing their systems utilizing that
and and have that as a functionality sure so when when is the official
date for the launch crow for for midnight nobody knows but i think it's going to be announced at
rare evo that's been my speculation for a while everybody thought it was um this month earlier
this month and they just said no it you know between this date in july and this date in august
Everybody thought that it was going to launch like a week after this news came out.
I had a feeling it was going to basically be released at Rare Evo, which is August 6th through the 10th.
So sometime in that time frame, I think it's going to be announced.
So for those people that maybe they have Cardano, but they have it on Coinbase.
There was an airdrop, right?
I want to get into that a little bit.
So, say there was an airdrop.
Can you tell us a little bit about that airdrop they did and how you qualify for that?
Well, the first thing is, is basically the snapshot was taken on, I think it was June 11th, and your...
i always tell everybody you use exchanges like a public restroom like you do not leave your assets
on exchanges because of things like this you you you know you you go to a public restroom
you're not sitting there on your phone right for hours you you go in you do your business
and you get out and you you know that's it
And exchanges should really be used the same way.
I don't know why people love to like sit there, sip a Mai Tai in the public restroom and like read the paper is basically how I look at it.
You're probably going to catch something.
Get the hell out of there.
So in the case of like these major exchanges or these centralized exchanges, everybody that's holding their assets on these exchanges are at the mercy of whatever these exchanges decide to do.
And I haven't seen a single one yet announce that they are going to honor this airdrop for all of their users.
And because the thing of it is, is it's all the snapshot was taken based off of, you know, these, these private keys, these wallet keys and where the Cardano or where the ADA is, has been stored.
So if you're, if your assets are on an exchange, they're not, you're, you're, they're not in your custody.
And so the reward is going to the exchange based off of the wallet addresses they're using to store that asset.
So then it's up to them to say, well, Billy Bob user ID 0019 had, you know, 185 ADA at the time of the snapshot.
So he's going to be due this number of nights.
They're not doing that like they could, but rather than do that, they could simply just.
suck it all up and keep it
and not give it to anybody
regardless of how rightful
or wrong it is for that matter.
So yeah, if you're on an exchange
and if your assets have been on an exchange
you're likely not going to get these
knight tokens, which I do believe are going to be
Yeah, and I think that was the
some major news just for people coming in and and getting involved with the blockchain
and they've come in through coinbase say and say they're really reading up on
cordano and they they like it and they buy some just mostly for investment's sake right
and they just don't know they don't have a a vesper wallet or they don't have a
You know, well, I guess it used to be Nami, but...
I think now the number one wallet,
I've been getting some information from the team,
and it looks like Lace Wallet is going to be primary for Midnight
and a lot of the functionalities associated with Midnight.
Like nothing has been public yet, but I don't have an NDA, so I'm pretty sure it's okay for me to say it, but I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lot of functionality that's going to be available using the Lace wallet that's not going to be available on other wallets.
And I know that I'm going to be getting some clarification on that,
and I'm probably going to be doing some content about it here pretty soon,
breaking down what the differences are,
because I think Lace is the only one that's actually been developed with Midnight in mind
because of its direct relationship with IOHK.
So this is going to be really interesting.
It's not to say that a lot of the other wallets aren't going to work,
and you are going to be able to use these wallets for the airdrop,
For example, you're not going to be able to use Daedalus directly.
You're going to have to import your keys into something like LaceWallet
in order to use the application for the airdrop.
But even beyond that, in terms of use cases
and other applications and things that are in development,
you're probably going to want to use the LaceWallet to achieve anything there.
Yeah, for me, it came on my NAMI
which for those that don't know you know desktop is more of your nami and vesper is more the mobile
or eternal is more than mobile but they it just came on on mine one day i don't know a few months
back it's been a while and it said upgrade to to lace and so it's kind of like an automatic deal
if you just click clicked it right and you're in the wallet so you're you're on the wallet so
And it was pretty easy to switch over.
I used to love NAMI Wallet.
And I honestly, at the time, I really didn't like lace that much.
For me, it was like, you know, a beautiful person physically who had no brains. It was like, it just, it looked great, but it just did not work very well, and anytime I'd open it, it would hang and load forever, but it's come so far, man, especially since the, like, the partnership and everything, it's done really, really well, so now I actually use it for a lot of my web-based stuff, and it's actually pretty slick.
Yeah, I don't get in mine that often, right?
I don't really get in there too much, as much as I used to.
But yeah, it seems okay to me.
I got familiar with NAMI.
I was on-ramp using NAMI.
Never had a problem with it, ever.
Never had a problem with my NAMI wallet.
But getting back to the token,
so Midnight, is it a separate chain?
On Cardano, is it a parachain? What is it exactly?
Basically, as I understand it, it's a partner chain.
And it is a separate chain with its own fuel.
And I guess the easiest way would be to explain midnight as a gas station.
Night token is your pump, and dust is the fuel.
And that gas station is connected to a much larger network that does a lot of other things in Cardano.
So would it be fair to say like midnight is like Cardano's layer two?
I guess you could say that.
You know, I'm not a developer on that level, so I haven't studied it down to like understanding the equations and formulas and all the really hyper complex stuff.
I'm too old and dumb to know any of that.
But, I mean, when it comes to general functionality and how it exists, yeah, I mean, it's effectively its own chain.
It's not like if I were to take Crow token and implement some functionality to it, and I've taken this native asset on Cardano and then I've made it like a privacy layer.
And I'm asking more so, so when people ask me, I can explain it.
The best, easiest way, like what you just said with the gas pump, right?
That's very, you know, people understand that.
So people kind of understand when you talk about layer ones and twos,
if they've been in space six months, they start learning about ones and twos, you know?
So I was just thinking, is it best to talk about it as,
As a layer to, but I think you answered that question with that analogy there.
I'm going to use it, man. I'm going to use that.
So I want to, we got some guys up here.
I want to, I don't want to hog up the mic.
We got a whole team here.
Everybody for those people listening to this later, we're talking with Crypto Crow, talking about Midnight, Cardano.
And the Billy Goat Tails team is on the space here, so I want to kick it over to you guys, and we also, I see, well let me, Sir Lost, you got your hand up brother, come on up man, let's get into some midnight conversation brother, good to see you too.
Thank you. I just wanted to confirm that Midnight is the first layer 2 that will be on the Cardano network.
That's something that Charles did mention, and then Place Wallet is actually part of IOHK,
and that was their wallet they developed for the whole ecosystem,
and they partnered with Midnight, so that's why you see all that type of integration.
They got Nami from Sandra, who was the person who made Spacebooks, but he didn't want to continue developing it, so IOHK took it on and then they integrated it into the LaceWall.
That's a good alpha, brother. I didn't know that.
Yeah, everybody has their own way of learning, and they attend these different spaces and different YouTube channels, and
It seems like everybody's got a little piece of the information, that's why I was hoping tonight we can really get in and just peel back the onion and kind of discuss this, because I'm like you, Jason, I'm excited about what's happening here, and I think when the world, it's sort of like Cardano's story in of itself, right, I think when the
The world sees everything this particular blockchain can do.
I think more people are going to adopt.
That's just my own worthless opinion,
because the way I see it, like Charles says,
this thing's been running up,
for a long, long time, and it's secure,
and it doesn't have problems like some of these other chains have had.
And everybody, to each his own, I make no bones about it.
I love what they're doing over there, and I use it, right?
So, like, if we develop the Billy Goat Tales book,
everything, you know, flopping, buying tokens on Minswap,
you know, just using the chain, right?
I do still got to stay, I still do got to, you know, one thing that I've, you know, been not doing well with Cardano is staking my Cardano.
And I've talked to Crow a few times, but I just got to get over there and do it.
It takes five seconds for free money.
Yeah, mind your business. Come on up, brother. Good to see you, Seth.
Hey, thanks so much for all the space, and thanks so much for having Crow on, because, I mean...
It's not just a claim to fame that he was one of the first YouTubers to talk about Cardano.
In the minds of a lot of people, he is synonymous with Cardano and vice versa.
So I think that's great that you went to the mountain to get the truth.
Men, la mi just add one little detail.
I've been doing a little bit of reading on Midnight Network recently,
because, just because I'm interested,
and I am one of those people for whom, you know,
when they say, oh, yeah, you're in it for the tech?
Yeah, bro, I'm literally in it for the tech.
So just know that there is no ulterior motive on my part in making commentary.
I just wanted to understand.
I am not incentivized to see Midnight Network succeed, fail,
god, dårlig og annorlunda, hva som helst det gjør, jeg bare ser ut, en observer, fordi jeg er interessert i privasjon
og teknikk, men noe å være kjent med, og noe som får deg litt mer aggressivt
løpende inn i ekosystemet Billy, og så andre som er noe dyktig inn i
Gardano, men kanskje ikke så dyktig som å runne deres eget validatorer, eller pooling ressourcer med andre
cardano you know whales or other cardano holders to then set up your own validator
is that midnight network is a merge secured network so while you you can call it a side
chain you can call it a second layer regardless of what you call it it is a fact that the
the cardano validator network will be validating the midnight network so they have shared security
that's not a bad thing that that can be considered very a very good thing in the same way that merge
mining in the proof of work networks can be considered a very good thing it's uh it's um it's
less wasteful saying that all the transactions are going to be cardano settled transactions
Det jeg mener er at det samme ...
Jeg vil bruke en annen analogi,
for det er bare mye enklere for TMT å illustrere det, ikke sant?
Så forstå, du er i Denver,
og alle byggene har en gigantisk façade, ikke sant?
Det er to døra nær hverandre,
som går inn i to ulike nattklubber,
og fordi de to døra er en steg bort fra hverandre,
kan du bare kjøpe en bouncer.
That's the validator network of Cardano securing both Cardano and Midnight Network, if that makes sense.
So that's something to think about all the time.
You need to clarify all the techno babble for me on those deep layers.
Oh, man. Well, I'm doing what I can, honestly.
I'm feeling called in a different direction, but I'm here because again, the tech is fascinating and dude,
I'm seeing on the roadmap, something that's fascinating to me is that I do think that this slow methodical approach in the current regulatory environment, especially with privacy, it's warranted.
I mean, you got the guys, privacy is hard.
In the United States, the powers that be have proven to us that if you're not doing it in the way that they like,
They might not let you know until, you know, until the subpoena shows up or until whatever, the SWAT truck pulls up in front of your house.
So like, it's not an easy thing to fix.
And this sort of the multi-phase rollout of Medellin Network, I think that it is smart to just take that time.
What it's not clear about just yet is whether or not...
The ZK proofs, the things that actually reinforce the privacy on Midnight Network, which is a later phase, right?
This is still just early phase with Midnight Network.
It's not the full product yet.
But I mean, it's IOHK and it's Charles Hoskinson.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
None of this is built in a day.
Ja, ja, men det tar tid, ikke sant?
Det er det jeg kommer til, og multiphase testning, det tar tid.
But when they do roll out these ZK-proofs, it isn't clear yet whether or not those will also be a requirement for the validator network to be able to do.
Because ZK-proofs do require dedicated hardware devices to do.
It's a non-trivial compute task where you need to have computers do the math.
They actually have to solve hard math.
to be able to generate these zero knowledge proofs so that'll be interesting to see how that layer
rolls out on the securing side so that'll be a singularity net issue that'll probably solve using ai somehow
Kanskje, for koordination, ja kanskje, men i slutt av dagen blir det fortsatt heviglifting.
Tenk av det som, igjen, for å bruke en dårlig analogi, en dårlig illustrasjon.
Så det er i samme måte som du kan stå en veldig smart AI-brain i en veldig svart robot-bodi,
disse ZK-provene fortsatt krever heviglifting på den kompute- og matematiske siden.
Så de kommer til å bevare ting som ganske gps, eller veldig veldig veldig veldig validator systemer.
Verden som er overbyggt for å kunne gjøre dette.
I minst gjøre det på skala.
Det er bra ting, Seth. Se, det er drilling ned i nøttene av det.
Bill, if I can just really quickly, let me tie up why I mentioned it, though.
Today, what's obvious about the Midnight Network launch today
is that if you're somebody who has even a passing interest in running a validator for Cardano,
you will effectively get to double dip,
because there will be a security budget for Midnight Network.
In the same way that you're paid to secure the Cardano network with your validator today,
well in however many days or weeks when midnight network launches they're they're telling you that
the security budget of midnight network however that shapes up whether it's paid in the night
or the dust token more likely night i think what i'm hearing from from pro and then you know with
the uh uh with the conversion to dust as needed you know for for other other activities
um however that's paid out there will be a security budget that is paid out to validators
who are opting in to also validate uh and secure the midnight network so nerdy stuff but hey if you
if you know any nerds who are like yeah man i like i like earning from running validators
well they've got another revenue stream now i just messaged my admin so yeah i want that yeah
And see, this is the power of us coming together and talking about this stuff.
but he has a little piece of this pie right and we can all get in the room and
and talk about it and and learn something new each and every time man
it's incredible so that's good stuff seth for those
seth is great seth is the guy who i always telegram
really complex ideas that i have and i say can you tell me how to make this
i want to create a quantitative trading bot using this algorithm can you tell
And he's like, I'll try, man. I'll get to you. I'll get back to you.
Yeah, he's our resident privacy and tech guy for sure over here at Billy Cotill's, too.
That's good stuff. But Seth, for those in the audience, zero layer proof, what does that mean?
What do you mean when you say that?
Ok, Billy, some of that broke up, but I think you were asking me about the zero-knowledge proofs.
Zero-knowledge proof, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So this is privacy technology that's been proven in other blockchain applications for some time.
And Roman Storm, poor guy, he got jammed up by authorities for building this into a solution called Tornado Cash.
It made a lot of news, or it made a big splash on the news a couple of years ago,
when the authorities said, hey, we don't like the way that you're doing that on other competing networks.
Now, he made Tornado Cash for run on Ethereum and networks that run similar to Ethereum,
But ostensibly, they got into his business because A, it worked, and B, they didn't like the way that he was profiting from it.
So it seems like, based on the timeline of the Midnight Network development, if they're going to leverage zero-knowledge proofs, which are a cryptographic proof of...
på den ene siden, en part, vet at de kan prøve på en annen part at de har noe
utan å vise dem hva de har, det er derfor de kaller det en zero-knowledge proof, så det er som du
sier hei um, og vi snakker om dette hele tiden når det kommer til digital id og du vet nft lager
og ulike måter av oss av oss som solver digital id i blockchain, men det klassiske exempel er
is going to a bar and billy gets carded because he's just so youthful right they're like hey you
gotta see your id right um he's just he's just he's too young at heart so they asked for his id
and and billy says you know what i don't want to show you my id because my you know
he's thinking about it my driver's license has my home address on it so i don't want to show them that
if you had the ability in real life to use a zero knowledge proof
it'd be similar to the way you put your finger over your home address when you show them
right and you say okay there you go you can see my birth date but i don't want you to see my home
address and i'll let you i'll move my thumb a little bit so you can also see my photo you can
tell it's me that's a zero knowledge proof you've proven to them only what they need to know um but
in the case of blockchain primitives and some of the math that really cool math that we can do
you can go even more extreme and just give them kind of a yes no so imagine instead if on your id
On the back of your driver's license, it was a high-tech ID where you press the button on the side,
and it just flashed green to signal to them like, oh yeah, this person's over 21.
They're fine, because that's all they need to know.
So that's what Zero Knowledge Proofs promised to do,
and that's now a built-in primitive aspect to Midnight Network,
or what it promises to be when it fully rolls out.
I want to kick it around the horn.
I mean, I got tons of questions ready to go here,
but I want to get some other people up here
asking questions about midnight
and about dust and everything Cardano has built.
Some of the details that people are probably
going to want to know about are the,
like when you're claiming the tokens,
I mean, it looks like it's going to take up to 360 days to get all of the tokens claimed over a period of time.
And this isn't going to be one of those airdrops where people are going to log in with their wallet and just find an abundance of tokens all at the same time.
Which is actually brilliant if you think about it the way it's going down.
But that could be something to discuss.
Good point, Crow. Good point.
Ja, jeg vet at dette er Biomex, så takk til deg igjen, Kro, for å komme på,
og det er bra å se deg på Mind Your Biz, og også til Risk Gaming og SirLoss,
takk til deg for å komme på her, jeg vet at du alle er veldig involvert i Cardano-spacet,
samt CBS, du er der nede i chatten, eller i den lyssende publikasjonen,
men jeg var lyssende mye i dag til noen av Charles' intervjuer,
og noen av de videoene som du hadde faktisk putt ut også, Kro,
jeg tror at det var en år siden,
You highlighted a few different creators, too, that were talking about the midnight rollout, and of course, more recently, the last...
people have been talking about how to claim your airdrops and what not, how to claim it when they do come out.
And so from the latest of what I heard from I think an interview that Charles did about three weeks ago
on the Sean Ryan show, he talked about it being sometime maybe the end of this year.
And so that is an exciting thing, just as you mentioned, they're going to be rolling that out,
the dates at least at Rare Evo here next month.
um and and great uh explanation guys of zero knowledge proofs you know the 21 8 you know
showing your age without having to show uh anything else um so but uh what else do we want
to get into i mean you know i know that uh midnight i mean just like yourself crowe is very excited to
to hear about all of what midnight is going to offer and i think um even last year you you
talked about it as maybe offering one operational thing you know so if it's the
if it's the pump and then it's the gas then others can come alongside and maybe bring
a high performance car and then maybe someone else brings a tire and you kind of used an analogy
of of the ability for others to bring other things on the chain and provide that kind of
operability or functionality, but this being kind of the beginning of the fuel of the injection of the kind of currency and the way things will operate.
But what else excites you about this and what we have going on?
Well, I actually, I uploaded the entire white paper to Grok, and one of the questions I asked it was,