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STATE OF CRYPO MARKETS?? CRYPTO MEDIA SPEAKS 🎙 ARLTP Ep. 33
Recorded: Oct. 27, 2023 Duration: 3:01:04Space Recording
Full Transcription
Sounds good, thank you.
My name is Mateusz Szuzaszowski and I'm the Governance Facilitator for Polygon.
I've been in this space for almost 10 years now and since 2018 I have worked for various
web-free organizations including Dapper Labs, Flow and MakerDAO.
At Polygon I lead the governance team in building, strategizing, executing decentralized decision
making frameworks for Polygon protocols.
It's a pleasure to be here and also thank you to everyone who showed up and is listening
and I hope today's session will be valuable to you.
Awesome, it's going to be fun and thank you.
Daniel, go ahead.
Hey everyone, I'm Daniel, I lead the smart contract development at Polygon and me and my team,
we built Paul and the contracts we're going to talk about today.
Thanks for having us, excited to be here.
Awesome, so I should probably say right at the top of this space here, we're taking the
first hour to go over some questions that we have for the Polygon team, going to dive into
the pull upgrade.
I know recently I've talked with some people, friends and just in some of the posts that
I've recently pushed out, I've had some people kind of wanting things clarified.
So hopefully these questions will help kind of clarify things that people don't know about
the upgrade and maybe about the governance and all the progress.
So I want to dive in, but before I do that I also want to let everyone know after this hour,
the last two hours will be kind of like the regular flow, we'll have kind of like a media
related and, or a media related type kind of theme, and we'll kind of talk about the
state of the market and stuff like that.
So we have a jam-packed day for everyone here today.
Rock, do you want to say anything before we jump in?
Yeah, just really excited to be here talking about this.
I think, you know, what Polygon is doing with ZKEVM and CDK and all of the different, you
know, technologies, you know, the one, you know, that's most interesting is ZKEVM, but
we also have, you know, Miden and others that are really exciting, Blydiums, et cetera, that
will all come together in this CDK that will be this modular thing where people can kind of
pick their own chain or build their own chain, kind of a build a chain, I guess, workshop
type, you know, kit where you can have your different parameters for your different chains,
depending on if, you know, you want to prioritize, you know, like Fort Knox level security with,
you know, still high throughput, but not as high as, you know, say like Blydiums, which
will be higher throughput, but maybe slightly less security, but for some things that doesn't
matter as much.
So, I mean, that's the world we're going to get into and, you know, in the traditional
world in Web2, you don't use the same toolkit for every application, for every website, you
know, you have to be able to adjust based on, you know, the specific needs and parameters
of the thing you're building, and so Polygon is giving this, you know, wide kit that you
could build lots of different things with, but then all those things magically through
the power of pull will be tied together and interoperable and composable and all these things.
So, really exciting stuff and really happy to go into this a bit deeper with you guys
today.
Same here.
I think, you know, the first question I want to ask, the most important question is, Daniel,
are you related to Wayne Gretzky, the hockey legend?
Yes, very, very, very far away.
What?
Yeah, my great grandpa or something, he moved to Canada, or his brother moved to Canada, and
then somewhere down the line, you have Wayne Gretzky.
Bro, I thought Aztec was trolling there.
No, no, I got a little peeing in our chat, but that is so wild.
It really proves that this, such a small world.
Yeah, definitely.
Very cool.
Very cool little piece of fact there.
Well, let's go ahead and jump in then.
Um, the first question, what is the pole token?
So, first and foremost, the pole token is an upgrade.
Um, it's an upgrade to our existing token, um, the Matic token.
Um, and it's, as well, like an ERC-20 token as well, uh, and we will use it as the next-gen
token for Polygon 2.0.
Um, it has the same initial supply as Matic, and, uh, it has emissions, uh, that will fund
validated rewards and ecosystems.
Um, or, uh, I don't even, I don't think there's anything out on this, but could those emissions
at all, maybe, I'm trying to sneak some alpha out of you, but if you don't, if you're not
allowed to answer, feel free not to.
But could those emissions fuel a new airdrop for ZKVM, because there's been a lot of rumors
flying around?
Uh, there will be no airdrop, I think that is safe to say.
Um, and I think there already have been some, like, scams floating around.
Um, so this is something that, uh, I think we can be pretty clear with that there is no
airdrop.
And if you see something that's in airdrop, don't click it, because you might lose your
NFTs or tokens or everything.
Got it.
That would not be good.
So thanks for the heads up.
Um, I, I do have to ask, you know, like, why was the, the pool token needed?
What, what, uh, made you guys think, you know, let's, let's go ahead and, and, uh, kind
of have this upgrade happen.
Um, sure.
So, I mean, first and foremost, the Matic network that now is, we know as Polygon POS
network, uh, launched 2017, which is, um, decades, if not centuries in crypto terms.
Uh, since then, a lot of things changed.
Um, we got new standards.
Uh, so we wanted to give it an upgrade, a small uplift.
Um, this will result in improvements to user experience.
We added some, uh, standards like the permit standard and also integrated into Uniswap's
permit two contract, uh, which allows for like signature based approvals, signature based
transfers, um, which should greatly just improve the convenience of using the token.
Um, but also, um, as I would say Ethereum scaling challenges evolved over the years, the vision
of the Polygon ecosystem also evolved.
Um, so we introduced our multi-chain and ZK centric roadmap and Matic was no longer, uh, sufficient
to, to facilitate that.
Um, so that's where the Paul upgrade comes in, um, essentially our technology needs to be
able to reward network participation in a sustainable way.
Um, and the goal is with Paul to provide long lasting security across all the networks that we're
going to, you know, come out with.
And that's why Paul is more aligned with the new technology and can ensure the network security
better than Matic.
And that's why it was needed.
Um, so I think this is kind of the rough explanation for why we decided to upgrade Matic to the
new Paul token.
Got it.
Security emissions totally makes sense, especially for the longevity of the project.
So awesome.
Okay.
And, um, what was the, the process, um, followed to agree upon?
The technical details of the token, like what, what did you guys have to do essentially
to get to the, the point where you could, uh, move forward with this upgrade?
Absolutely.
Maybe I can take this one.
Um, so for context, the POS chain is a decentralized network governed by a social coordination mechanism
called the polygon improvement proposal framework.
Uh, if you're familiar with EIPs, then, uh, that's very similar to what we have with some
necessary adjustments, uh, but the framework itself focuses itself around technical development
and the community of core layer developers, as well as infra providers, validators, perhaps
another major players in the ecosystem.
It aims to achieve, you know, as wide as possible ecosystem support and consensus around any
type of changes.
And as part of that framework, the, the token upgrade is also, is also present, um, to give
a little bit more historical context on the upgrade itself, the white paper, um, the Paul
white paper was published, I believe in June.
And that's when the community first, uh, started discussing the proposed upgrade, uh, and, you
know, more importantly, the vision behind the upgrade, uh, because as Daniel was pointing
towards the, the Paul token is a part of the vision, uh, it can only be understood as part
of the larger 2.0 vision.
Uh, and that's how, how I think about it.
Um, now in September, the white paper was formalized into a polygon improvement proposal,
a PIP and the process, um, that took us, uh, from that proposal to the deployment of contracts
live on mainnet has been full of, uh, community consultations and impactful feedback, um, facilitate
both in the forum and, uh, polygon protocol governance calls, um, including feedback, for example,
around the EIP 1559 implementation on POS, uh, what the necessary changes, uh, you know, need
to happen in order to, to, to, to prepare a way for 2.0 upgrades, uh, as well as adjusting, uh,
Paul token supply to account for previously burned Matic, uh, all of those, um, feedback
points and others have been taken into account.
And the, the, the, the, the main net release is a result of months of, you know, collaboration
in the community consensus gathering.
And it's also one of the first steps still, um, you, we will, you know, need to see at some
point an upgrade to the POS chain that will, uh, kind of validate this, this, this upgrade
by including it as the native token of POS.
Um, that's PIP 19 for those of you who, who may want to go to the forum or to the GitHub
repo and check it out.
Um, yeah, Daniel can maybe talk a little bit more about that, but basically that's the,
that's the process that took us, um, from the initial idea to the main net implementation
that we saw this week.
Matus, before Daniel jumps, uh, into that, can I ask you like how much, uh, um, like community,
how, how does like community feedback kind of weigh in the, the governance part of this?
Is it, is it, uh, you guys are taking that feedback and then thinking about it and, and, uh, and if
there's something good, then it kind of gets added in or like at, at this point with these
PIPs, um, how does that work?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, as I mentioned, the focal point of, of governance of POS, uh, chain and in the future,
other protocols as well is the, uh, polygon protocol governance call that happens bi-weekly
now.
Uh, it includes all of the major stakeholders from, uh, core developers through validators
and for providers to major DAPs and other major players.
Uh, and so the, the discussions around particular PIPs, including the, uh, the one that is in
question here happened on that call.
Uh, the consensus is also reached on that call for the deployment of any, any, um, new changes,
any new hard forks are also scheduled on that call.
Any upgrades are also being discussed there.
And if there isn't, you know, uh, kind of, uh, significant, um, consensus against it or,
or rather significant, you know, sort of backlash because the changes, I don't know, would break,
um, something in the, in the works, then the, the PIP, uh, the PIP gets implemented and the
implementation of that PIP obviously varies depending on what the, uh, consensus requirements
are, right?
So for example, if we are talking about making the poll token, the native POS, uh, token,
well, that will require a hard fork.
Um, and, and so, so this, this also, what, what, what follows the, the consensus gathering
process is also dependent on what, what kind of change we're talking about here, whether
it's core related, contracts related, uh, et cetera.
I think it's also important to note that the forum also plays a significant role.
So anyone can register on the forum.
And if you have questions to any PIP, we, you know, you can comment, uh, and someone of us
will respond.
If you have any suggestions or improvement proposals or, um, any concerns, you can voice
them there and we're there, we're taking a look, uh, and we're considering every comment
and, um, also actively responding and engaging with the community there.
So it's not just the major players that are involved in the governance calls, but really
anyone can interact with us and voice their opinions, concerns, and questions on the forum.
I have a feeling, uh, just, yeah, go ahead.
Apologies, just following up on that.
Exactly.
That's a very good point that I, uh, I, I didn't mention the forum is a starting off
point for any sort of discussions around any upgrades, um, you know, and all of the, uh,
discussions also begin in that forum.
So when we speak about, for example, transitioning the, uh, the POS chain into a ZK POS
of Alidium, uh, that discussion, the research around it was also published in the forum.
And, and we are, you know, just, just getting around to it, gathering community feedback.
And based on that, they will be, the changes will be formalized into PIPs and those PIPs
will follow along the, the regular process.
But, uh, yes, the, the forum is an important piece of that.
And then the PIP framework is also an open framework, meaning anyone can go in and submit
a PIP as long as it fits with the, uh, with the requirements, uh, anyone can suggest a
change to the Polygon protocol.
Um, and so that's the, that's the, you know, kind of starting off point for any sort of, uh,
consensus gathering.
Um, it really feels like, I know for, for years now, you guys have been taking a, a focused,
a focused approach on trying to decentralize Polygon as much as possible.
And it's really becoming more and more clear with the governance stuff.
All of this is really, uh, it's really cool to see it become, you know, start moving more
and more to a direction of decentralization, uh, like really following a lot of, uh, following
a lot of like Ethereum's, uh, roadmap with that.
So it's really cool to see.
Yeah, I agree.
Um, and, and I'm glad you guys kind of dove into, you know, the forum and, and how it can,
you know, anyone can actually get involved on some level by either submitting your own PIP
or just asking questions or, you know, kind of, uh, giving a suggestion to, to, uh, uh,
Polygon improvement proposal that's already submitted.
I mean, there's, there's just so many ways to get involved.
There's the calls.
And I think there's, um, you know, there's a lot of people that are involved in Polygon
in different ways and they might not know that this exists.
So I'm glad you guys kind of dove into that.
Um, before I kind of derailed with that question though, I think Daniel, you were going to kind
of talk about like the security and, uh, side of things.
I'm not sure if you want to dive into that a bit.
Sure.
Uh, I mean, security is the backbone of all smart contract development.
And we also obviously want to avoid, uh, any exploits.
So generally we start out building the contracts.
We thoroughly test them ourselves, uh, like formal verification, different security practices.
And we also are always working on improving our internal security flows, um, and how we
handle things.
Um, after that, everything goes into our internal security, um, to our internal security team
who does the initial review.
Then we have, um, an external security team come in and they also review everything again.
Um, everything is reviewed, not only the code, but also the deployment processes and, um,
everything like that.
And now the final step is everything is live, but that doesn't mean everything is over from
a security standpoint.
Uh, the back boundaries are live.
So if you're a security researcher and you find anything in our contracts, please get in
touch with us.
Uh, on the repo, there's also a document how to get in touch with us.
If you find anything critical or even not critical, um, and you can get a bounty on any issues you
find, but hopefully we've done our job thoroughly and there are no, uh, no issues, but you never
know.
Um, so.
Sure.
I have a great faith in the polygon team.
Uh, you know, I've, I've seen how the polygon team is any, any kind of little thing that
comes up just immediately jumps on it, takes care of it.
And, um, you know, it's, it's always been a great experience with polygon.
So, um, I'm happy to see you guys are still like making sure security is top of the line
as well.
Um, I'd like to jump into the next question here.
So I actually see a lot of people asking this, uh, I'm in different chats, uh, like
telegram chats and discord chats.
And, uh, there's a, there's a group called the Matic militia.
And this question has even come up, you know, it's a community, um, group.
So do people need to migrate their Matic to pull?
And what is the next step in the roadmap for pull?
Um, I can weigh into that.
So first and foremost, no user action is required today.
Um, we are, we have heaps of upgraded upgrades ahead of us.
Um, tons of work.
This is the foundation.
This is the initial upgrade that kickstarts roadmap.
Um, but this also means that while we are still working on future upgrades, this means
that if you upgrade to Paul now, you won't really have a benefit from it.
And also there's no drawback from not migrating.
Now, um, this is the most important thing.
Um, later on, uh, it might be, you know, might be beneficial to upgrade, but, um, I think this
will be communicated more clearly, or we also have, um, strategies in place to help migrate.
Um, for example, the first upgrade that is, or the next upgrade that is planned is the basically
update of the native token on POS.
Um, I would say this is a bit of a confusing description for that upgrade, because essentially
what we're doing is, um, currently all native tokens on POS are Matic tokens that were bridged
over to POS, right?
Um, what we are going to do with the next upgrade is we will migrate all Matic that are within
the plasma bridge that is used to bridge, uh, the Matic over to the native token right now.
And we're migrate, migrating all the Matic tokens into Paul tokens, which will mean that if you
currently hold the native token on the Polygon POS, uh, POS chain, you don't have to do anything.
And your Matic will be migrated to Paul automatically.
You don't have to do anything.
It will just happen at some point, and the next time you then withdraw your native token
back to Ethereum, you will just get Paul instead of Matic.
Um, the next then step would be, or the next upgrade would then be probably the upgrade to
the staking layer itself.
Wait, could I pause you there?
Yes.
So if you said you won't need to do anything, so it'll, will the transition happen?
It's when you withdraws or, so if so, are there, now will that, now what happens if you bring
that token back to the POS layer?
Um, so we actually already, um, implemented this update.
We're currently just communicating with everyone to make sure that, uh, um, you know, with, uh,
bridges and exchanges to make sure that no one is affected by this upgrade.
But essentially what happens is when you deposit Matic into the bridge, it will automatically
get converted into Paul.
Um, and if you deposit Paul into the bridge, it will just be bridged over.
And when you withdraw the, um, the native token from the bridge to Ethereum, instead of Matic,
you will just receive Paul.
So this is, in fact, a pretty simple change to the bridge.
It's just, we're internally, when you deposit Matic, automatically convert it into Paul.
And then just in the future, you will, we will just use Paul as the only token and Matic will not,
no longer be bridged over.
But this also means that.
Because the native token just stays.
You cut out for a second.
Can you repeat that last sentence?
Uh, yeah, last sentence was, so yeah, if you hold tokens, native tokens on the POS chain,
you don't have to do anything.
Or even if you use RepMatic, this will just stay the same and you don't have to touch it.
But what will that, so will there be two tokens on POS for some time or, or in, in general,
in any areas?
So that's the interesting part, right?
So the native token on, on the POS chain is not really an ERC20 token, right?
It's a native token, the same we have ETH.
So when you use ETH on Ethereum, we call it ETH.
It doesn't really have an official name.
It's the native token of the Ethereum, uh, of the Ethereum network.
Same for the native token on the Polygon POS network.
It doesn't have like a name, like a traditional ERC20 token has a name and a symbol.
It's just the native token.
And it's a bit up to social consensus, what we call it.
So in the future, we will just call it Poly, but essentially there will be no real difference
in what was before the upgrade and what is after the upgrade.
It will just remain the native token.
The difference is what you receive when you withdraw it using the bridge.
And in the future, you will just receive the Paul token automatically without you having
to do any extra, like any extra step, any extra migration.
You'll just receive Paul where previously you would receive Matic, if that makes sense.
Can you convert from Matic to Paul without withdrawing?
Yes, you can do that, um, when you are on ETH, right?
So when you're on the Ethereum network, uh, you can migrate your Matic to Paul.
There is the migration contract that is live.
Uh, but the migration contract is also already integrated into DEX aggregators.
So when you, for example, use Paraswap, I think their integration is already live.
You can simply migrate from Matic to Paul using their front end.
Then you don't have to go through Etherscan and do these, uh, shenanigans.
Oh, that's cool.
There's so many mechanisms in place then to make this a seamless process.
And, uh, what you were explaining earlier also is if you are a staker, like I am, you don't
need to do anything.
Like you're staking Matic tokens, uh, you know, securing the network.
You can just stay doing what you're doing and everything will convert by itself.
It's basically like magic.
You guys are wizards.
We're trying to make it as easy on the user as possible.
Um, and also that's a good thing you mentioned with the staking.
Right now you need to stake Matic, um, obviously.
And then what we are also working on is making that transition process to Paul staking and the
new staking layer that is now the second part of the roadmap, uh, as easy as possible.
So there will be probably an upgrade to the staking layer as well, where we do the same
thing like we do with the bridge where we convert everything or migrate, uh, the Matic into Paul
automatically without the user really having to do anything else than they would do normally,
which would be, for example, withdrawing.
Now we would migrate everything in the background for you.
So again, we try to, uh, uh, require the least amount of user actions as possible.
Awesome.
Love you guys for this makes it just so easy.
Yeah.
Um, I'm not sure if you, you also, um, want to talk about like how abuse as a native gas
token or a kind of going down that route.
I'm not sure there's anything more you wanted to say about that.
I think there isn't really anything else to say, uh, because on the Polygon POS side,
nothing will really change for a long time.
So everything will continue to operate as usual until we then move to our ZK centric part of the
roadmap where, uh, we then transform POS, the POS network into a Validium.
Um, until then, nothing will happen on the POS side of things.
And if you have your Matic on Polygon POS right now, you're golden for quite a while.
Perfect.
So it's, it's really easy.
Um, I think that that pretty much sums that up, uh, clarifies a lot of things.
So I appreciate it.
We can probably jump right into kind of like the protocol council and the progress
we've made with governance rock.
Do you have any, anything that you want to say before we kind of dive into that?
Yeah.
I mean, is there anything that can be said, or is it pretty, I guess it might be just simple,
but basically the, the poll token will be used when, when you guys upgrade the, so currently
the Matic validators validate the POS, you know, the legacy main chain.
Um, but over time, um, they'll be converted to, uh, the validators will become sequencers
and basically batch transactions from all of the different, um, Polygon ZK EVM and CDK chains.
So, you know, that means immutable, uh, the POS Validium, uh, ZK EVM, Doge chain, um, uh, Kanto,
Manta, Astar, uh, uh, OKX, all these chains that are, that are being launched, um, will eventually
go through this decentralized sequencer, uh, layer.
And the Matic validators will be converted over to becoming sequencers now.
Um, which is really interesting.
So can you say anything about how the token will be used there or is it relatively, I guess,
I guess it's not completely straightforward because I have questions in my mind, but yeah,
can you say anything about that?
Yeah, sure.
Um, so with the different POS or sorry, with the different like Polygon networks,
we have ZKVM, we have the POS networks, they all serve kind of different purposes.
Um, and then obviously you mentioned, uh, Kanto and the other CDK chains that are going to join
the network.
Every one of them will have their own niche kind of problem.
They're kind of trying to solve their own target audience and their own use cases.
Um, every use case might require a different kind of, um, staking mechanism or a validation mechanism.
Um, and that's what's going to be reflected in the staking layer.
So if you're, for example, a big corporation that would just wants to create a CDK for your own
purposes because you want to give loyalty points, uh, or something like that to your customers and
just keep that on a CDK, you probably don't need a decentralized sequencer network.
So you can plug in your own, uh, shared sequencer or centralized sequencer and, uh,
uh, with this scale more efficiently.
But if you're a chain like Kanto, that is, you know, some decentralization is required,
then you can use that new staking layer to, um, to essentially get validators to validate for your
chain, uh, or aggregate transactions for your chain.
But there's more roles more than just sequencers, uh, that are, for example, provers or data
availability committees.
So that's where the restaking part of the token will come in because you will be able to stake your
polytokens once, and then you will be, you'll be able to take that, that one stake and use it for
different kinds of things.
And this should increase the, um, I would say like opportunities to get these network security
rewards for validators because now they can operate multiple chains at once without having
to fragment their liquidity and staking.
If that makes sense.
Whoa.
Okay.
So now you're getting into, uh, this is like, for those of us who've been curious and about
diving into the weeds on the tech, this is very interesting.
So when you say restake, are you saying that you'll be able to
essentially stake for multiple chains and earn rewards for multiple chains?
Yes, exactly.
So you could stake a thousand Paul and then you could, uh, do sequencing on the POS network.
You could do sequencing on the ZK EVM network, and you could also do data availability for the
POS network all at once without having to, you know, assign 200 Paul to that service,
300 Paul to the other one, and then 500 to the third one.
Right.
Oh, okay.
Now it's coming together.
Okay.
Wow.
So, and does that include all these other chains like immutable, uh, Kanto, Manta,
Doge chain, Astar, are those, cause you named the three kind of, you named the core one.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, exactly.
So the goal is actually to plug in the CDK chains and everyone who wants to launch a CDK into that
staking layer, because, uh, if you don't have to fragment your liquidity to operate more chains,
to earn more rewards, this also means that you can, um, the, I would say acquisition cost of
validators in quotes is lower because anyone could just start absolutely within that staking
layer without having to, again, fragment their liquidity.
So like, instead of each chain having to pay for its own kind of Fort Knox security stamping
to Ethereum, they're all kind of, in a way, pitching in on the, on, on the overall security.
So the more chains that join, the cheaper it is to get that same layer to roll up Ethereum security.
Correct.
Wow.
Okay.
That's pretty cool.
Very cool.
Yeah.
Super exciting.
Uh, thank you for really breaking it down so easily for everyone, Daniel.
Um, I guess it's a good time to jump right into the progress that Polygon has made in governance.
Uh, so I'll go ahead and just dive right in here.
So we, we saw a bunch of OGs listed as members of the protocol council.
And if, if someone in the audience is not, uh, aware, I have both the pull upgrade thread
above and the governance thread above in the jumbotron.
So go ahead and take a look at that if you want more information, but, um, also, you know,
what is the purpose of this council?
I'm not sure who wants to take this question, not choose or Daniel.
Yeah.
I'm going to take that one.
Um, yeah.
So we need to first go back, um, for context since April, I believe in April was the, the
first post that we put out there on the forum, uh, with regards to what we describe as the topology
of Polygon governance, uh, and we there listed three, uh, rough pillars that were then refined
over the coming months along with the community.
Um, and those three pillars were protocol governance, systems, smart contracts,
governance, and, uh, community treasury governance.
Now, um, I'm going to focus on the, on the second pillar here.
Um, while the two are, are also important, they're not as relevant to the, um, to the protocol
council, what is systems, smart contracts governance?
Why is it needed?
I am a firm believer that the best governance is no governance.
Uh, and so in terms of minimizing the necessary amount of decision-making that is required for
security and efficiency, L2s have to consider basically, uh, a, a, you know, two paths for
approaching the problem of, of, of contracts on L1.
Uh, as you may know, all L2s rely on a set of contracts on Ethereum.
Uh, and the question is, do you keep those contracts immutable or do you keep them upgradeable,
changeable?
Uh, the argument for keeping them immutable is obviously, you know, you don't have to
deal with any sort of decision-making there.
The, the product is as is, um, there will be no changes.
However, the downside to it is that if a critical vulnerability is detected ever, uh, then, you
know, the, basically the, the user funds are screwed.
And secondly, if there is ever a need to migrate or to move to a better version of the, uh, of
the contracts, then you require a full migration, which is a, obviously a, a major headache for everyone
involved.
Uh, this is why, uh, L2s, uh, and among them, Polygon, uh, are guided more towards the idea of,
of including some level of governance.
Uh, and this is where system smart contracts governance comes in.
And this is where the polygon protocol council comes in as well as was announced, uh, a couple,
a couple of days ago.
Um, so what is the protocol council?
Well, the protocol council is the first step towards govern governance 2.0, um, you know,
the governance of polygon 2.0 components implemented as, uh, L1 smart contracts.
It is a first step, but an important one, since you, we do believe that, uh, the best possible
mechanism for L2 governance over those contracts is actually optimistic governance.
Uh, it is not, um, you know, as, uh, as burdensome and as sometimes over bureaucratized as,
for example, direct doubt, uh, governance where you have, for example, all of the token holders vote
for a particular contract change.
We believe that, um, optimistic governance is much more superior in that sense.
Optimistic means that the change is scheduled and a time for a response is given to the wider
community in our case, the community of token holders, uh, meaning that a change is scheduled
by a representative, which would be the protocol council, but then a, a voting window opens for
the community, uh, to veto that change, um, in order to, you know, stop, I don't know what they
view as, as, you know, either a malicious change or just an inefficient, inefficient change.
Uh, the reasons can be, it can be various, but basically that's what we, that's what we are pushing
towards. That's the first step of that process. The protocol council is a body of representatives,
13 representatives of the ecosystem of the community that are absolutely independent of
Polygon Labs. Uh, in fact, there's only two, uh, Polygon Labs employees on this council, which is,
uh, you know, an, an improvement over what we see as an industry standard. Uh, there's also the,
the, the high number of, of, of members. And I, maybe I can get into the, you know, how we architectured this,
um, this particular council a little bit later. Uh, but basically their task is to perform, uh,
both regular and emergency changes to the contracts currently as proposed in PIP 29,
they are governing the poll related, uh, contracts only, but we will be expanding that,
or we will be proposing to, to expand that, uh, reach to other components of, of Polygon 2.0.
Uh, and so their, their task is going to be, you know, very limited in scope. Also not often will
you see any sort of change to the contracts and much less so any emergency to, to change to the
contracts. Uh, but the, the limitation of scope is also what's, what's been important in designing
the system, uh, so that it's very, very clear what the task is, why it's needed and what the
ramifications and limitations of those tasks are. Right. And, and, and just to kind of hype this
up, there, there's some, and shout out to you guys, you guys here are gigabrains, but on this council,
there's, uh, some really amazing people. I mean, you, you do have, like you said, uh, you have, uh,
Geordi and, uh, uh, Gupta from Polygon labs, but there's also, um, a plethora of really amazing
people on this protocol council, people from, um, Coinbase and ECC. There's some independent
people that stand out here, like Zach XBT, uh, the Ethereum foundation, um, Zaki Manion from
Sommelier Finance. Um, there's, and I don't want to like miss out on any of these names. There's a bunch of
them, but not to, to not name all of them. They're, they're all really, uh, impressive names.
So that's, that's exciting to see that you guys have, you know, as you start this kind of, um,
protocol council that you have, um, a wider way, a lot of different experience all attached to this
initiative. Absolutely. And there have been some, you know, um, principles for, for member selection,
uh, the, the members that we've proposed to the community, um, they, they, you know,
we've looked at ecosystem reputation. Uh, we, we know that the council should be value aligned with
Ethereum, uh, the L2 ecosystem and the wider web free ethos. Um, all of those members have also
proven themselves historically as, as, you know, committed members of the relevant communities.
Second of all, we also wanted to ensure that the, the protocol council has, uh, a resilient
nature. Uh, and so the composition, uh, ensures that, that this resilience, uh, is there, uh, and,
and we do so by, by means of, of jurisdictional diversity, organizational diversity, and also, uh,
identification diversity. So you will see, for example, public persons on this list, uh, anonymous
individuals like Zach, uh, and companies like Gauntlet and L2Beat, all of them highly reputable,
uh, entities. Um, and then, you know, as I already pointed out, uh, the self limitation of influence
by Polygon Labs is also a, a guiding principle for this, for this council. So while there is some
representation, um, we didn't want any entity to, to hold wide sway over the decision-making of the
protocol council, uh, and this is, you know, expressed in, in, in, in having only two members
from Polygon Labs, but also, uh, in limiting any other entity to only one, uh, one member on the
council. Uh, and then lastly, we've also looked at technical and governance ability. So you will see
that the protocol council members, uh, demonstrate a significant level of technical, uh, security and
governance competence, uh, so that they may serve the interests of the community. They may represent
it well. And, uh, and that is, that is also guaranteed by, uh, by the, by the current protocol council set.
Wow. Well, this is extremely exciting. I think we, we have gone through all the, the questions
here. Um, is there, as I know we only have about four minutes till the top of the hour. Um, and I
just want to say thank you guys for being here, answering these questions so succinctly and, uh,
really helping us kind of, you know, clarifying some of the, the, uh, things that people have been
asking about in the community. But, uh, before you guys go, is there anything else that maybe I didn't,
uh, get to that you'd like to highlight before, uh, the end here? I guess, could I ask actually,
um, like how hard is it to join the council for those out there? I'm sure there's a lot of people
in the audience. We have a ton of builders. Uh, I think, uh, maybe, uh, a large percent of Polygon's,
you know, main builders in the community, you know, listen to this show. So for those who might be
interested in, in trying to join the council and get more involved, where can we point them? Uh,
what kind of things can they do to get involved? Maybe if they don't want to be a council member,
maybe they just want to participate in the forum, but is there, can you go a little more into
how the community, how our builders can all get involved? Absolutely. This is a great question
and something that, that I also would, would like to talk about. So, um, in terms of the,
the protocol council, there's currently no process for applying to it. Uh, however, the Polygon ecosystem
is so broad and the needs for contributions, uh, that any type of skill is going to be relevant to,
to what we are building here, to what we are doing here, starting with protocol governance. Uh, if you're
interested in this sort of technical core layer development, um, then you can, first of all, check
out the forums, check out the, the pip GitHub repo, um, get up to date with the recordings of the
protocol governance calls on YouTube, um, reach out to me or anyone else on the governance team,
uh, to, to kind of point you towards the, the best direction for yourself. If you're not as technical,
you may still contribute to the developments around, for example, uh, what we call community
treasury governance in the forum. You will find articles and posts about that as well. Uh, and then
lastly, as I was already saying, system smart contracts governance, this type of pillar will
require direct, uh, token holder participation, uh, going forward. And in the future, that's what we
are going to be proposing and, and looking to introduce. Uh, so that, that is also something
that, that you can contribute to, to defining, uh, in the forum. Uh, we're also planning to, to start
organizing some more governance oriented calls for, for Polygon, not only for, uh, protocol governance,
but also more broadly. So, um, just, you know, keep an eye out on, on, uh, any, any sort of
announcements coming from the governance team, uh, myself included, but there are some wonderful
folks here in the audience as well. I see Bojana, I see George, uh, I saw Hudson earlier on, um, and
there are some, some other great folks that you can reach out to. Uh, my DMs are open, so feel free to,
to, to talk to me. It's good to know that we can get involved, even not as devs. I myself,
I'm not a dev, but you know, I, I care a lot about this stuff. Um, and was very involved in like, uh,
both Bitcoin and, uh, Polygon, sorry, Ethereum, like, um, just being active in the community. You
know, we don't, I think it's important to note that devs are one layer of, of governance and devs are one
part of, of the blockchain, you know, world, but it's important that, you know, like, you know,
in Bitcoin, you have developers, you have, uh, miners, you have people running nodes, right? And
so same thing here, there's a bunch of different people involved in different ways. And, uh, it's
important, even if you're not a dev there, there's always ways to get involved. Uh, even if you just
want to give your, you know, voice, your opinion on things on the forums, if, if there's a PIP and you
like, or don't like it, even if you're not a dev, you know, we still have valid, you know,
reasoning, um, outside of just knowing how to code. Right. That's absolutely right. And even,
you know, non-technical feedback feeds into, um, what the, the PIPs end up as being and what ends
up being implemented. Like, for example, with the EIP 1559 changes, this is, uh, this was a proposal
that came directly from, uh, from community feedback, um, that, you know, wasn't necessarily
technical, but just pointed out an issue that was important and is important to the community.
So that was taken into account and implemented. Um, so yeah. Yeah. I definitely, I definitely
was voicing my opinion on that one. That's good to hear. Yeah. And, uh, I'm, I'm really looking
forward to hearing from all of you guys. Yeah. EIP 1559 was definitely one of the, one of the great
things, uh, that has been done for both Ethereum and Polygon. I I'm a huge fan of, of that. Yeah.
Yeah. I know we're at the top of the hour. There's a ton of great questions and I, you guys are
phenomenal speakers. So thank you so much for, for, uh, joining all roads into Polygon and just,
and having this conversation with the community, we like to say, you know, we're like the, uh,
Polygon town hall. Um, so yes, thank you very much for being here. And I know it's the top of the
hour. Was there anything else that you wanted to, uh, relay to the community before you guys go?
And we, and just so everyone knows we're going to continue after this, there's, uh, kind of like the,
uh, normal flow. We have kind of a, um, media themed, uh, space after this. We'll just do a quick
reset of the room, maybe play one song and then, uh, invite new speakers up. But, but before we go,
I just want to make sure, uh, Matthews, Daniel, do you have anything else to say before we, uh,
um, in this part of the, this, or this segment?
I don't have anything in particular other than as always the call to get yourself involved in
the community and the forums. I think that's very important, but, uh, I think we've said that enough
already today. Absolutely. We've been talking for far too long. So thank you everyone who's been
patiently listening to it. Uh, I hope it's provided at least some value to, to all of you guys and yeah,
have a wonderful day. Yeah. It's been great. Really, really great to have you guys on. You
should come back again soon. Uh, we've had so many people from Polygon on and, and different,
you know, uh, groups, whether that's, you know, now governance development, uh, you know,
we've had Sin Deep on many times and Mahalo and, uh, yeah, it's, it's great to have different from,
yeah, gosh, we've had like three or four people from, uh, the DeFi side and, uh, and marketing and BD and
we've had so many people from Polygon. So getting your guys insights, getting, you know, these direct
insights, you know, kind of from the horse's mouth is, uh, is really nice. Um, I think that the
community really appreciates this stuff. Uh, that's one cool thing about Polygon from back,
even in the early Matic days was we would have, you know, if people remember the, the old Matic Mitra
program, the, uh, ambassador program was, was pretty legendary. And one of the reasons it was so legendary,
I think was because, you know, Sin Deep would be in there regularly. Uh, we'd have, uh, less often,
but we'd often have like Anarag or Gente in there, uh, and others, uh, Chen Dresh back in the day,
for those who may remember, but, you know, having the, the, uh, Sanket, we, you know, having the, uh,
you know, the Polygon, different members, uh, as it, as it becomes even more decentralized,
having more people, uh, participate directly so we could learn directly from you guys is,
it's just really, really great. And we really appreciate your time.
Absolutely.
Yes. Thank you guys. And I hope, uh, I hope you guys have a great weekend. We're going to be
transitioning over to, uh, the next segment of this space, which will be a media related space. I
appreciate you Matus and, uh, Daniel for being here and I hope you guys have a good one. Uh,
we'll, we'll go ahead and, uh, bring you guys down off the stage and invite some new, uh,
speakers up to talk about the next segment.
Cool. While we do that, uh, so the next segment will be, uh, about media and how media affects,
uh, crypto and, you know, it is a big part of this industry. So, uh, this will be pretty fun to,
to ask some questions and learn about, uh, kind of behind the scenes, what, what PR and media and,
and all the marketing and stuff that goes, well, PR and media aren't necessarily marketing, but,
you know, can be. So it will be cool to get some, uh, some juicy, uh, information from,
from, uh, the people that are doing this stuff directly.
Yes, definitely. I'm already getting stuff, uh, queued up in the background here,
Rod. So maybe, um, we go ahead and do you want to play a song and then we'll just start, uh,
bringing people up on stage. Yeah. So for, by the way, I guess I could, uh, yeah. While you guys are
organizing and setting up the next, uh, segment of the panel, um, it's, uh, part of the reason guys
that we haven't had, uh, we haven't been playing, like, you know, I haven't been DJing anymore and
playing, you know, popular songs. We've been playing only our music that's been made for this
basis is because there's been a lot of copyright, um, like dings, people getting accounts either
suspended or banned from playing music. So unfortunately we're not able to do that.
We're trying to find maybe a workaround, but for now we're going to play it safe. We don't want to
lose, uh, any of our accounts here and mess up this, uh, you know, these spaces. Uh, so we've only
been playing, uh, uh, stuff that's actually made for the show. Uh, give me a second and yeah,
I'll play something here. Uh, just bear with us for a second while we get the next segment set up guys.
I'm just going to clap rhythmically over here. Um, and with the emojis, that can be some visual music.
Clap on lights.
Throw some purple hearts guys. We have a bunch of beautiful people already joining. Got nerd girl.
Seth is here. Michael, Wendy, Taryn. Hey guys.
Hey guys.
Happy Friday. Panels getting stacked up. Beautiful.
Good morning.
GM, GM.
It's like a rebel and I'm ready to go.
Michael. I think you've been up since like, um, like what? Like 4am this morning. I don't know.
That's what it feels like.
I've been up all night.
Are you an AI bro? Cause I don't think you sleep. I swear. Like if I, if I messaged you,
like I think you're always on.
Team no sleep. Crippler don't sleep. I don't sleep.
Are we going to do Michael's, uh, weekly check-in with his AI girlfriend?
That's, that's the other Michael. Hold on.
That's the other Michael, not me.
Clarification.
Actually, I mean, Jared is talking about Michael Japp Radar.
That's Japp Radar Michael. What's up?
My wife's listening to this.
No, my wife is not listening to this.
I feel like-
She's at a tennis match.
I feel like you need a, a Netflix series or something at this point.
Yeah, I'm in Dubai right now.
I have enough people around me
that don't need AI right now.
I've been at the blockchain live conference.
No AI girlfriend this week.
But maybe, let's see, soon.
I'm here three weeks, so I might need one.
Good times.
I think we've pretty much got everyone
on the stage.
And we're probably going to
bring a couple more on.
But we could probably skip the song rock
and just start doing introductions.
Yeah, might as well.
I mean, everyone here is probably
already familiar with the flow,
but this is an open kind of forum.
You don't even have to raise your hand.
We're going to have some questions.
You can just jump in.
We love the back and forth conversation.
So please feel free to interrupt
when you like or jump in when you like.
And please also share the spaces, guys.
Help us.
We had that hiccup today.
So with the first space got rugged,
which we don't know why.
We've been doing this for a long time.
And we didn't do anything differently.
But sometimes that just happens.
So because the first space got rugged
and a lot of people had reminders set
and those reminders don't flow through the new space,
all the retweets and everything
don't flow through.
So if you guys can please retweet this,
let your friends and community know,
let your families know if they want to learn about crypto,
this is the best place to do it.
So please share and leave comments
if you have questions for the panelists
and drop some emojis if you like what they're saying.
And if you hate it, give them the thumbs down.
All right, let's get started.
Good times.
So I'm just going to start right off
on the left of my screen.
Nerd Girl, go ahead and take 30 seconds
to introduce yourself.
Sure.
Hey, so I'm Nicole.
I work for,
so I actually run the PR department for LDA.
And that actually,
that comes from a long background in journalism.
And I started out in crypto journalism several years ago
and then kind of like slowly transitioned
into more PR and marketing.
Now that said,
I'm also an editor and a contributor at CryptoMag.
So I do still function as a journalist.
I just have,
I just play multiple roles.
And chief communications officer for LDA.
Sorry, so that I said run the PR department.
That is my formal title
as chief communications officer.
You got to flash,
you got to flash that bling.
Yeah.
Sorry about that.
Yeah.
Good time.
It's awesome to have you here, girl.
And my stage is moving around here.
So I hope I don't miss anyone.
We got Wendy in the house.
Wendy O, how are you doing?
Good morning, everybody.
Thank you for having me again.
Thank you to Michael for inviting me.
I'm currently putting snail mucin on my face
because it's supposed to help with good skin.
And I'm Crypto Wendy O, or just Wendy O.
Wait, mucinex?
No, it's called snail mucin.
And I got it off the TikTok shop
because I live on TikTok also.
So it's supposed to help.
It's like, it's like supposed to help your face.
It's like Korean beauty.
So it's supposed to help your face,
like look good and stuff.
But I'm like, literally.
Did you say cream beauty or Korean?
Korean beauty.
Apparently, like the girls in Korea
really just know how to do it well.
So shout out to all the Koreans that do this.
Korean beauty.
Well, I am.
My girlfriend is Korean.
Okay.
Korean and Thai.
Awesome.
And yeah, they, she's got nice skin
and she definitely like,
sometimes when I go to like kiss her at night
and I'm like, oh God, what is on?
What do you like?
You're all oily and stuff.
Don't you come for her skin.
Don't you come for her skin, okay?
Rock, did you see my whole collection
of all the Korean skincare stuff?
No, I didn't.
Tiffany's the plug.
Tiffany's the plug.
She has so much stuff.
Anyways, but yeah,
I'm currently getting ready for my show
and because, yeah.
But anyways,
if you guys want to know more about what I do,
I run a YouTube channel
and I talk shit on Twitter
and I do TikTok and stuff.
I just basically talk,
cover the news
and talk about different crypto.
Plus, I like to call it the public servants
and I would really love to see
the entire crypto community come together
and stop interfighting
over small, meticulous BS
or irrelevant BS
that literally means nothing
because at the end of the day,
I feel like they're really trying
to take our power away.
But you can find more info about me
on CryptoIndio.com.
Thank you guys so much
and support Korean Beauty
because it does really,
it does amazing stuff for your face.
Yeah, Wendy was one of the first people
to interview the Matic team,
like I don't even know,
like five years ago or something.
So I think it was at the web,
okay, it was a blockchain beach thing
that they were there
and I saw Sandeep
and a couple of the other team members
like, hey, can we do an interview?
They're like, yeah, we can.
So I just walked up to them
to do an interview.
It was really awesome.
So I have that on my channel.
Also, to full disclosure,
I do own a bag,
a moon bag of Polygon Matic pull.
So I always like to disclose
my holdings.
That means that I've already taken,
a moon bag is when you've already
taken profit,
you've removed your risk,
all that type of stuff.
I've already paid taxes
on the damn thing.
So I am invested in the project,
just FYI.
By the way, question for you.
I saw, or I heard from someone
that your TikTok got like banned
or suspended or something.
Is that fixed?
No, it's my Instagram.
So what happened is,
is because I have so many,
like there's so many impersonators,
they mistakenly removed
my crypto.
No way.
Which I own that handle,
like I own it.
And so we're working
on trying to get that back.
I'm working with legal
and all that stuff
because, yeah,
it's pretty silly
that they banned that
because, or they suspended it
because I've had that account
since like 2018
and all the handles
are the same and matched.
But anyways,
we'll, we'll work on
get it back.
That's one of the main,
that's one of the main places
I follow you actually.
And I actually have gotten
a message from
one of your impersonators before.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I hope I get that.
I hope I get it back.
If not,
I'm kind of starting a new one,
but anybody knows anyone
over at Instagram,
reach out to us.
To me,
it's more so like
I like to kind of
squat on the handle
just so that when people do,
when my impersonators
do come around,
people can always go
to my website
and verify that it's me.
So anyways.
Good times.
Well, everyone,
please give
all the great speakers
on this panel a follow.
But let's go ahead
and continue
introducing everyone.
Thank you, Wendy.
I'm going to have to get
that secret from you soon.
I don't know,
like there's like
a specific brand
or something,
but I could definitely
use some beauty
in my life
because I live
the crypto lifestyle
and I think I've aged
like 20 years
in the six years
I've been in the space.
So, yeah.
I'm just going with
I don't care.
I'm going to have
leather skin.
I walk around
for hours
on these spaces
and business calls.
I walk like an average
of like five miles
plus a day
on business calls
and I don't use
sunscreen or anything
and I'm walking here
in LA
in the beautiful sun
and I'm just going
to get leather skin
so I don't care.
Here we go.
Your California people
are so beautiful.
I dropped a comment
letting you guys know
what product it is
and I said this is
for all the leather skin.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Thank you, thank you.
All right.
Let's go ahead
and introduce Taryn
to everyone here today.
Hey, guys.
Thank you for having me back.
I am Taryn.
I'm with Traderverse
and I'm super pumped right now
because after two years
of building
and also our ecosystem
and our token
will be built
on Polygonmatic
and is being built
on Polygonmatic
and I'm so excited.
I can't even...
I'm like not a shill person
but like I said last week
I feel like I've been pregnant
for two years
and it's finally
about to give birth
in like January
Q1, 2024
and it's like
the pains are starting.
Like the labor pains
are starting right now.
We're getting people
signed up
for our alpha testing group
and I'm just stoked.
I've had my head down
and everyone's like
where have you been?
Like where...
You've been so quiet.
I'm like bro,
bro because I'm like
I'm in labor pains right now.
Like we're just trying
to get this test group together
so I've been kind of
head down
working my ass off
and so
I'm excited to be here.
I love...
This is probably
my favorite place.
Polygon fam.
Yeah, I love this space
because you guys are
like a breath of fresh air
honestly
in the like
universe of Twitter spaces
I always love coming here
and I come with my wild
conspiracy theory self
and you guys just accept me
for who I am
and I love it
and so
I'm excited to be here.
Always love you guys.
I always enjoy hearing
just all the Michaels in here
just touching base
with Michael's
AI girlfriend.
I will have to meet...
Correction,
Michael from Dap Radar
just in case my wife's listening.
I...
We were in a team call.
I forget if it was
an LDA call
or quick swap
or something
but the other day
we were talking about you
and...
Oh my God.
I was like...
I was like,
what did you say?
You were like...
I don't remember
if you were saying
it was funny
or you felt bad
or something.
You called her
chicken lady.
Was that how you
remembered her
in the beginning?
I said something
along those lines.
Yeah,
but because
every time I see you,
Taryn,
I remember you
talking about
how you
own chickens
and it was like
the first time
we met you
and...
we were talking
about DeFi
and I kind of
came in hot
and was like,
you guys,
like,
you want to go
like completely DeFi?
Start becoming
completely self-sustainable.
Like,
get yourself some chickens.
Start growing your garden.
Don't depend
on any sort
of monetary system.
So I kind of
came in hot
one week with that.
I think you...
And one of the times
you may have said
like your Bitcoin
and your stuff
isn't going to help you
if like,
you know,
grid goes down
attacked.
You better have your...
I was a little wild.
I was a little wild
that week.
I like it.
Cool.
Okay.
Should we go to Seth?
What's up?
Mind your biz.
Hey,
Thanks so much
for inviting me back
to another episode
of All Roads Lead Polygon.
My name is Seth.
I run the channel
Mind Your Biz.
I run the website
mindyour.biz
and I am an advisor
to a couple
of crypto projects.
I also work
in crypto marketing.
I'm on the roster
at Loon Digital Assets.
I think the proposed title
was Director
of Shitposting.
We're still on the negotiations.
I don't know.
Maybe I can still
nab that one.
But, you know,
it's a work in progress
but also did a stint,
a one-year-long contract
at a billion-dollar
sort of traditional
marketing agency
for influencers
called Viral Nation.
as their primary
Web3 educator
and, well,
I just say
I wore a lot of hats.
Sometimes, you know,
we all did.
Very small task force.
A couple of good friends
that worked there as well.
But it's my pleasure
to also to educate
whenever I can.
My current efforts
on YouTube,
if you're following me there,
they look an awful lot more
like personal profiles
and biographies
of builders
and creators
in this space.
That's what I'm
most passionate about
outside of
privacy and security.
So I love
educating anytime I can
on privacy and security
with cryptocurrency.
I think that those
two aspects
of self-custody
are the last frontier,
right,
or the last battlefront
of mass adoption
and in its proper form,
proper intended usage
as a cypherpunk tool
and not as a system
of surveillance.
So, yeah,
I think,
yeah,
we're trying to win
hearts and minds.
Also to you guys,
on my channel,
anytime there's like
tech-heavy stuff
or mining stuff,
I always tell people
to go to Seth's channel
because I understand
this stuff
and I do a pretty good job
of breaking it,
breaking things down.
But I always push people
over to Seth
or to Brooke Lacey,
people that are
smarter than me.
The reason why is
is because I don't
know everything
and I also feel like
if you,
somebody that says
you know everything,
you're probably
a bigger idiot
than I am.
So the guys,
the people like Seth
and Brooke
and the technologists
in the industry,
they're very,
very important
because they understand
how a lot of this
works on the back end
and you don't have
to be in crypto
and understand
how these things
work in the back end
but it's good maybe
to just expand
your mindset
and consider some
of their point of views
as well
and also really understand
how important security
is when we're talking
about blockchain
or self-custody
or any of those things
because there's a lot
of tips and tricks
these guys and gals
can give
that will really,
really help you
keep your funds
and things safe
and again,
a lot of it
is just adding
an additional layer
of protection
and using critical thinking
so reach out to them
always.
Yeah,
I appreciate you
throwing those flowers
and I'm just smart
enough to know
that I don't know enough
so I do look
for other people
that can bring expertise
and defer requests
and questions
over to other people
that are smarter than me
so thank you guys again
for having me
on today's space.
It's always great
to have you here Seth.
Can you guys hear me?
I got rugged
right in the middle
right when Rock
calls me out.
Okay,
can you guys see my emojis?
I'm throwing purple hearts.
I know man,
like,
can you guys see
my purple hearts?
Because they're not
showing up on my screen
but I'm clicking.
Okay,
cool,
cool.
since you may have missed some
I'll just bring in our
I'll welcome our next guest.
Sounds good.
You may not know which ones
are Shitcoin Shaman.
Welcome back.
You were fun.
I think you've been on here
what,
once,
twice?
I think like three times
but yeah,
yeah.
One time,
one time you guys.
I don't remember
what we talked about
but I remember us
having some fun,
I think there was
some controversial stuff
maybe.
But yeah,
what's up man?
Thanks for letting me up here.
I saw,
got some notifications
for some of the speakers
being on here
and I was like,
I like that show
and I was on with
some of these guys,
some of these folks,
ladies and gentlemen.
Wait,
wait,
wait,
wait.
Was that you and,
I'm thinking here,
was that you and Wendy
going back and forth
on like,
you're kind of more
Bitcoin Maxie
and she's like,
fuck you Bitcoin Maxies
basically?
not really.
Not really.
We had a normal discussion
and then she actually
was kind enough
to invite me on her stream
I think like the next day
or the next day.
Nice.
Yeah,
we met here,
met here on the stage
and then I went on her show
and that was fun.
Yeah,
last time I was here
it was supposed to be
a trading themed
show
and you guys
and I was on here for that
and then I was really happy
because it ended up going
deep into ordinals
a little bit
and that's a big part
of what I've been
doing with my own project
so that was kind of funny
last time
where I,
you know,
it was supposed to be
about trading
and we ended up talking
about ordinals
for like an hour
but,
and I didn't initiate it either.
I was like,
I'm not going to show
my project,
I'm not going to show
my project
and then you guys
started talking about
ordinals.
I'm like,
actually,
I can correct you
on some of these things
but anyways.
Well,
to be clear
on the Bitcoin Maxi,
like,
I'm Bitcoin Maximalish
and most people
call me a Bitcoin Maxi
which I think,
I don't like
when they call me that
but I say
fuck Bitcoin Maxis
personally
because I think,
look,
there's really great things
that they bring
to the table
and I always say
Bitcoin is the true
north compass
of our industry
and that we should
really follow actually
what a lot of
Bitcoin Maxis believe
but I also think
they're just too toxic
and too non-inclusive
and we need them
to open their minds
and I think it's happening
now with things like,
It's not necessarily
about being inclusive
because decentralization
allows you to do
whatever it is
you want to do
it's just being
a decent human being
I think that's
what it really,
like,
I feel like that's
what it really means
is just being
a decent human being
and stating your opinion
and say this is why
I think the way
I think it is
I disagree with you
cool
and then move on
but you don't have to
like when you start
attacking people
and doing that type of stuff
it just gets to be
really ridiculous
and it takes away
from the actual mission
of what everybody's
kind of trying to accomplish
in the industry
and that's just trying
to have control
over your own money
remove predatory third parties
and make as much money
as ethically as possible
and when I say that
it means follow
those tax loopholes
you know,
follow things that are
in constraints in the law
but grift just like
all the public servants
and people making laws
or grifting
and just do the best
that you can
but just don't be
an asshole to other people
it's really
it kind of turns people off
especially like
how I grew up
if you're a dick to me
I'm just not going to
talk to you
or even deal with
your community at all
so just showcase decency
and if you don't get along
with somebody
cool,
just keep it moving
yeah,
yeah,
I couldn't agree more
and I mean,
I find it funny
that they even call
that like
to me the term
Bitcoin Maxi
I am full on
Bitcoin Maxi
in like the
pure English
definition of those words
the way I define it
but it's almost like
a political affiliation
where
the words
don't even have
the real meaning anymore
and like what
people think of it
that's so true man
you know,
people think of someone
as a bit
who is quote unquote
a Bitcoin Maxi
and there's like
they've got this list
of things
that they believe
about Bitcoin
and decentralization
and whatever
and they must
check these boxes
but I say
I tell people
I'm like
when I have this
with the ordinal stuff
you know,
there's quote unquote
maxis who hate ordinals
and they'll
want to argue
and I'm like
dude,
I'm a Bitcoin Maxi
and that's why
I love ordinals
because I see
the value prop
for the network
as a whole
on this
like what are you
talking about?
it just doesn't
even make sense
but anyways
I will
I don't got too much
else to say
I'm just here
to just,
you know,
hang out
but yeah,
thanks for bringing me up
Yeah,
like many words
in our languages
you know,
they take on
new meanings
and they're very nuanced
right?
So yeah,
we'll put that
to rest for now
maybe continue it
later another time
I have something
to say on it
so hopefully
we can
because it's related
to media too
so yeah,
we can come back
Yeah, please
Oh, okay, cool
Do you want to say it now
or do you want to come back?
Oh, I know that we have
to get through the introductions
and we're like going off
and so we can
I can say it now
I just, I thought
Yeah, go ahead
Go ahead
Go ahead, nerd girl
Nobody's holding me back
So I wrote something
about this
a couple of years ago
right when I started
working for LDA
the name of the piece
is Married to Bitcoin
to Have and to HODL
and it's really
an examination
of like the evolution
of Bitcoin maximalism
over time
and this piece
like includes
an interview
that I even did
with Adam Back
a conversation
that I had
with Adam Back
about Bitcoin maximalism
and essentially
it really has transitioned
to profit maximalism
and that's very different
from, you know
really what we think of
with Bitcoin maximalism
so it's just interesting
to learn about the way
that it has changed
and then this piece
was republished
in an all Bitcoin
media outlet
Love is Bitcoin
and what's funny
is we were just having
this conversation yesterday
about like the toxicity
level of maximalists
and how that really
hurts Bitcoin
in the long term
because new people
who are coming
into cryptocurrency
are really off-put
by the maximalists
to the point
that they don't
want to hold Bitcoin
so I think
that is changing
a lot now
Well one of the
unfortunate parts
of it is that
it basically
makes it
it really tries
to create
this environment
of like us
or them
you know
it's like
oh you're either
a Bitcoiner
or you're a shitcoiner
and I don't think
that's the best way
to do it
you know
when I talk
to people
I tell them
look
when you're first learning
Bitcoin is the first
thing you should learn
about
you should learn
those proper
like decentralization
kind of values
and kind of morals
and ethics
I guess
and learn about
the history of money
and why
you know
Bitcoin matters
you know
decentralization matters
and then
transition into
these other things
learn about Ethereum
and Polygon
and Chainlink
and all these other
very interesting protocols
but the problem
with Maxis
is they just
oh all this other
stuff is terrible
and so what happens
is new people
who are interested
in these other things
who are interested
in whether it's
for speculation
and you know
getting 1000x
and they don't think
Bitcoin will do that
so they want to go
oh I don't have a lot
of I hear people
all the time
I don't have enough money
I can't
you know
Bitcoin's not going
to make me enough
for me to catch up
to everyone else
so I need to look
at these other things
and so for whatever
reason it is
maybe they really think
that DeFi
is interesting or cool
but whatever reason
it is
we don't want people
to be in this camp
of oh I'm a Bitcoiner
or I'm in the other camp
I think people should
like we should
all have open discussions
and they're both
all these things
are very interesting
and we shouldn't
try to alienate people
and that's what
Bitcoin Maxis
sometimes do
well yeah
I love what you're
what you're bringing up
there Rock
as far as
as far as
sort of an artificial
division between
these different camps
when instead
it's almost like
it's like if you have
a giant toolbox
we use a
you know
we use a
an analogy
that surely
every man
in this group
in this space
can appreciate
we have a giant
toolbox right
you know
because of your
because of your
desire to go
take things apart
and maybe put them
back together
again the right way
then you have
a ton of shelves
and what goes
into all those shelves
well is it all
socket wrenches
is it all
whatever
impact drills
I mean
people who think
that there's only
room for Bitcoin
or only room
for their favorite
protocol
it would be
as silly
as taking a
giant toolbox
and filling it
with all the exact
same thing
over and over
and over
and over
and over
again
you wouldn't
really get
very far
when you're
trying to
tackle
different
problems
so yeah
I love
what you
brought up
Brock
and I love
also the
fundamental
aspects of
Bitcoin
having like
Bitcoin advocacy
right
but by any
other name
you're just
arguing for
sound money
you're arguing
for sound
core
durable
value
Bitcoin
really
good
at that
really
really
bloody
good
at that
so there's
no reason
to discard
when you're
like
okay
well
maybe
I'm not
a sound
money
person
maybe
very
risked
with my
investment
thesis
okay
yeah
maybe
Bitcoin
is totally
not for
you at
with your
investment
thesis
but that
doesn't
negate
its value
as sound
money
yeah
I love
that you
brought that
thanks
good times
I think
we got
to introduce
everyone
and then
we can
continue
like
I always
feel bad
when people
haven't been
introduced
Michael
because I
was rugged
there for
a bit
Michael
when
have you
introduced
yourself
I mean
I know
everyone
knows
who you
we have
Michael
from
Raider
we have
Crypto
Chick
Genzio
I don't
think you
guys have
been introduced
if you
guys
want
to take
seconds
to just
introduce
yourself
and then
we can
continue
conversation
I'll
do a
really
quick
I am
Michael
that
doesn't
have
an AI
girlfriend
just
everyone
kind
remembers
DJing
kind
work
a lot
marketing
facets
within
crypto
space
also
co-founder
vCentral
you've
been
also
seen
some
conferences
we've
York
Denver
Miami
popular
Austin
also
a few
other
places
also
Tokyo
Singapore
Korea
around
within
crypto
space
good
times
it's
always
great
didn't
even
name
conferences
you're
responsible
there's
many
there's
many
DeFi
summit
where
spoke
with
Mark
Cuban
Mark
Cuban
Stanny
Stanny
from
Aave
Stanny
founder
Aave
Sandeep
founder
Polygon
there
anyone
else
there's
Justin
hosting
think
that
that
crazy
that
really
good
technically
Decentral
owns
four
brands
it's
DeFi
Summit
Summit
which
games
metaverses
a lot
bigger
events
some
smaller
satellite
events
like
East
Denver
stuff
like
that
speaking
East
Denver
Genzio
official
media
partner
East
Denver
appreciate
that
thank
inviting
Zach
here
with
Genzio
we're
media
marketing
company
team
puts
tweets
East
Denver
follow
that
page
really
like
tweets
that's
coming
from
team
also
very
obviously
close
Decentral
team
love
events
help
with
that
media
Korea
blockchain
week
futurist
conference
Edcon
anyone
seen
that
really
viral
clip
Vitalik
getting
asked
favorite
pickup
line
that
created
team
yeah
create
events
small
events
then
company
kind
helped
create
social
media
content
grow
brands
yeah
super
excited
to be
here
with
Polygon
have
conversation
media
definitely
have
some
media
related
questions
to dive
into
just
second
after
introductions
it's
great
have
here
then
introduce
Michael
from
Dapp
Radar
what's
everyone
talking
from
Dubai
because
here
conferences
wanted
chime
into
what
said
before
about
Bitcoin
other
assets
guys
girls
there
only
Bitcoin
everything
else
scam
right
this
evil
smart
contracts
they're
they're
inflationary
wait
muted
said
they're
inflationary
then
muted
yeah
somehow
muted
automatically
because
of course
muted
automatically
crap
like
that
just
kidding
Darren
producer
probably
muted
exactly
yeah
I was
I was
Bitcoin
conference
last
people
there
were
really
like
that
like
talked
about
anything
don't
know
what's
going
I wish
muted
again
but no
that's
strange
sorry
for that
so let
me try
something
let me
something
I heard
the smart
contracts
were made
in a
secret
Freemasons
meeting
where they
were
sacrificing
yeah
that's
exactly
anyway
Michael
from
Dapp
Radar
I hope
I'm not
muted
anymore
I am
running
yeah
I'm running
the whole
engineering
department
Dapp
Radar
obviously
we have
tons of
data
about
this
awesome
space
of Web3
track
blockchains
I was
honored
actually
to speak
at the
blockchain
live
conference
yesterday
about
Web3
gaming
and how
cool
it is
honestly
I met
a lot
people
afterwards
that are
working
in the
Web3
gaming
environment
and they're
ultra bullish
so I'm
basically
summarizing you
the most
important
in my opinion
category
of what's
going on
on the
blockchain
everything
else was
quite boring
but this
topic was
nice
and I'm
also glad
to tell
and you
might not
care
but I
they came
to me
the conference
creators
the hosts
and they
told me
my keynote
was the
best one
of the
whole
event
which is
ultra cool
and this
is the
first time
ever
that this
should
happen
to me
and other
than that
I'm here
to share
you whatever
data I have
on that
if you're talking
about any topic
I might chime
in and throw
some numbers
at you
and yeah
always happy
to be here
you guys
are awesome
and let's
who's next
let's go
Michael
we need
some live
videos
even like
recaps
on your
thoughts
that you
do at
all these
different
conventions
yeah
I actually
okay
I will
put a
thing
into the
Jumbotron
yeah
obviously
I spoke
way slower
there
because
you know
that's
how you
do it
there
will
video
officially
they
have
still
right
will
there
will
share
good
times
know
have
more
people
introduce
here
have
crypto
chick
please
take
away
sure
well
it's
great
to be
here
with
many
familiar
wonderful
people
crypto
chick
guys
have
been
space
almost
half
decade
with
crypto
magazine
from
launch
client
relations
executive
everything
that
research
that
project
there
ground
floor
bridge
communities
you know
kind
whatever
I can
here
space
love
three
space
innovation
that's
happening
here
give
insights
anything
that
anybody
would
like
know
well
it's
great
here
awesome
always
great
have
show
just
wrap
introductions
think
have
more
Brooke
Lacey
good
have
roads
lead
Polygon
what's
invite
come
hear
name
like
feel
like
such
queen
also
favorite
people
this
stage
know
hearts
like
love
huge
Polygon
people
a lot
what's
what's
the deal
with
crypto
were
mining
2010
drugs
Silk
Road
that's
story
lost
a lot
when
seized
again
love
that
story
yeah
past
statute
limitations
there
just
know
balls
steel
sure
actually
guys
husband
group
friends
like
were
ones
doing
they
have
complete
PTSD
like
they'll
never
get back
into
crypto
ever
ever
again
it's
because
they
don't
believe
in it
it's
because
it's
literally
like
post
traumatic
stress
just
look at
things
differently
like
it's
just
like
investor
mindset
like
time
that
what
happening
money
being
made
with
business
when
starting
like
disperse
money
from
I don't
know if
you guys
remember
that
they
were
trying
they
were
starting
like
disperse
some
Bitcoin
that
that
seized
like
there
like
form
that
fill
like
there
somewhere
like
know
like
guys
know
that
some
that
mine
course
that's
a joke
because
they
took
drug
money
yeah
that's
story
polygons
you know
is the
shit
not a
maxi
of any
kind
security
technologist
maxi
even
know
these
people
real
life
Seth
friends
spent
very
long
coffee
think
lunch
dinner
wife
favorite
people
Seth
just
tags
along
know
those
people
that
like
your
wife
third
wheeling
yeah
here's
thing
love
means
letting
don't
have
to be
first
second
wheel
it's
right
nerd
girl
actually
live
same
place
need
each
other
more
yeah
glad
awesome
totally
agree
totally
agree
just
always
always
actually
storage
unit
that
live
because
nomad
yeah
Wendy
Wendy
been
because
TikTok
well
know
each
other
from
TikTok
really
close
friends
learned
learned
everything
from
just
news
everything
love
going
anything
want
learn
about
honestly
Wendy
and Seth
people
that
we're
friends
with
that
have
these
YouTube
channels
you're
going
learn
much
form
your
opinions
always
happy
talk
about
Bitcoin
Silk Road
shout
like
altcoin
daily
bros
we've
them
show
couple
times
yeah
that
whole
that
whole
group
educators
great
great
stuff
should
your
Twitter
lady
balls
steel
mean
took
second
like
should
that
should
like
don't
know
it's
like
something
from
South
Park
lady
lady
balls
know
could
ball
brook
there
it's
always
interesting
thing
because
course
number
right
because
think
there
like
something
Bitcoin
because
know
back
then
there
like
other
wallet
like
mined
then
hard
drive
like
Silk
Road
know
system
always
think
like
were
across
chain
I guess
from
there
probably
that
were
seized
then
everybody
starts
doing
math
know
like
could
millionaire
like
well
Draper
thanks
your
contribution
because
bought
most
those
know
lady
balls
steel
that's
that's
interesting
however
it's
just
investment
mindset
think
think
just
want
little
credit
that's
that's
absolutely
right
should
into
meat
this
conversation
today
we're
going
to be
talking
about
crypto
media
media
affects
crypto
what
kind
biases
there
could
media
hope
everyone
here
candid
kind
looking
some
kind
transparency
honesty
about
maybe
good
things
about
crypto
media
better
many
industries
media
been
corrupted
politics
a lot
co-opted
powerful
groups
prevent
crypto
from
being
completely
co-opted
getting
kind
deep
into
juicy
stuff
there
yeah
I hope
everyone
here
can be
honest
possible
yeah
I guess
it's
worth
saying
everyone
here's
opinions
their
because
some
people
here
representing
brands
know
maybe
these
brands
don't
want
people
talking
about
these
things
specifically
opinions
anyone
gives
here
I'll
just
give
blanket
disclaimer
everyone
just
their
opinions
opinions
companies
they
work
that
especially
for me
since I
work for
your
company
it's
company
you're
exec
we're
peers
yeah
I know
it's
funny
that you
didn't
say the
word
Cointelegraph
once
it's
also
it's
also
funny
that
were
supposed
them
weren't
guess
they
didn't
want
come
with
that
fresh
stuff
yeah
of course
they
know
they
will
roasted
someone
them
last
minute
here
someone
someone
from
Cointelegraph
actually
have
contacts
write
them
background
them
between
of us
them
mention
them
comments
this
like
them
they'll
join
look
we're
here
attack
them
anything
Cointelegraph
does
a lot
great
work
that
skerfuffle
does
anyone
want to
outline
what
happened
there
does
anyone
have
good
information
happened
what
happened
there
telegram
group
that
posting
news
information
Cointelegraph
apparently
just
went ahead
and hopped
onto the
news
created
article
with
which
then
bitcoin
pump
believe
like
something
like
that
that
caused
over
million
liquidations
then
afterwards
they
were
like
nope
it's
approved
we're
just
going
delete
this
message
they
were
panel
with
Mario
Noffo
these
events
what
they
basically
said
that
look
crypto
media
have
first
with
information
this
kind
like
media
supposed
to be
media
supposed
to be
first
information
first
news
didn't
into
credibility
of it
because
could
first
you're
going
right
it's
like
have
accurate
media
number
crypto
media
outlets
it's
like
desire
to be
first
and the
need
to be
first
and have
like
reported
first
kind
credibility
does
lead
a lot
misreporting
just
cryptocurrency
outside
crypto
well
it's
like
that
like
existence
of the
hour
news
cycle
speed
things
pace
things
multiple
media
outlets
make
false
statements
that
they
back
don't
really
know
other
than
public's
perception
media's
accuracy
because
have
many
articles
where
no one
fact
checked
them
like
only
person
from
A to
doing
checking
they
didn't
care
accurate
because
pieces
reflect
objective
truth
just
going
think
opinion
find
people
write
from
moral
compass
very
important
because
greed
need
want
first
these
people's
livelihoods
you're
getting
paid
know
measurement
good
journalist
first
mean
that's
huge
part
think
accuracy
part
honestly
comes
second
a lot
times
because
mean
everybody
knows
complete
misinformation
right
everybody
whatever
they
want
stuff
goes
viral
mean
there's
even
videos
and AI
pictures
circulating
going
viral
that
aren't
even
real
think
to me
there's
you know
question
you know
how do
we get
better
you have
to find
moral
people
that's
what you
have to
you have
to find
good
people
who are
willing
to put
it's
going to
be hard
to find
you're
going to
have
to find
people
who put
morals
money
second
to the
truth
that's
what you're
going to
have to
find
which is
really
difficult
really
difficult
because
people
will
sell
their
this
space
for a
buck
part
of that
has to
with
fact
that
path
where
right
modern
publishing
littered
with
bodies
people
description
what
just
said
because
they
went
broke
trying
speak
quotes
their
truth
instead
being
able
find
some
monetization
model
a set
sponsors
that
it's
been
an issue
there
being
real
incentive
tell
truth
other
than
being
whistleblower
which
case
virtue
signaling
running
business
because
can't
really
both
unless
you're
trying
sell
virtue
signaling
your
clickbait
unfortunately
you have
to look
incentives
advertisers
eyeballs
what
brings
eyeballs
usually
controversy
sometimes
high
profile
crime
very
very
rarely
does
sound
education
quotes
truth
bring
that
kind
eyeballs
agree
totally
and it's
not even
a question
a lot
of the
time
of what
journalists
want
to do
writing
staff
staff
writer
these
media
outlets
you're
really
asked
you're
told
it's
like
need
this
article
minutes
from
there's
like
time
know
whole
bunch
checking
yeah
there
people
refuse
won't
like
Seth
said
those
people
with
high
integrity
won't
compromised
those
people
know
broke
being
paid
stifled
typically
just
just
just
just
saying
back
check
minutes
because
know
know
industry
well
there
with
know
like
fast
news
coming
like
I've
always
wondered
even
check
such
know
like
you're
trying
beat
everyone
punch
like
just
your
network
like
what
yeah
would
your
network
you're
staff
writers
completing
these
kinds
tasks
you're
fact
checking
you're
doing
doing
what
your
editor
told
editor
told
frame
piece
like
this
just
pieces
together
didn't
check
anything
that's
saying
write
like
that
because
don't
that
what
being
staff
writer
media
outlet
24-7
media
outlet
like
just
wanted
comment
couple
things
like
first
thing
don't
know
anyone
remembers
back
2013
crypto
traditional
markets
when
Associated
Press
hacked
they
tweet
saying
that
there
explosions
White
House
Barack
Obama
injured
this
kind
similar
thing
Cointelegraph
thing
except in
this
case
it was
hack
that
tweet
briefly
flash
crashed
TradFi
markets
it's
kind
like
this
balance
essentially
like
have
need
first
balance
with
need
right
it's
just
really
interesting
thing
because
sometimes
market
moving
information
comes
second
then
takes
while
actually
backtrack
verify
because
everybody's
trying to
first
because
high
frequency
trading
sometimes
there's
enough
time
actually
verify
correctly
good
point
I think
that one
thing
that X
has done
that's
kind
helped
with
this
like
community
notes
like
I feel
like
more
companies
kind
allowed
community
input
content
that
they
almost
like
real
time
that
could
more
beneficial
like
you know
almost
like
on the
ground
confirmation
like
just
mentioned
you know
someone
reported
that
White
House
been
attacked
I feel
like
you had
people
were
able
kind
you know
either
right
next
White
House
you know
comment
that
you could
put out
like
a little
disclaimer
to say
like
this
hasn't
actually
happened
something
the same
community
notes
where
people
will
will
community
kind
jump
give
their
opinion
also
think
that's
like
direct
consumer
media
becoming
more
popular
like
the fact
that we're
doing
this
here
social
media
like
don't
know
Bloomberg
something
think
future
that
such
good
point
because
know
these
publications
rushing
to be
first
with
news
could
somehow
incorporate
hive
mind
into
this
stuff
like
like
what
you're
saying
here
just
just
noodling
what
you're
saying
thinking
could
this
actually
implemented
could
have
like
when
Cointelegraph
or anyone
else
post an
article
there
like
maybe
comments
below
source
sometimes
they
can't
maybe
here
source
here
think
this
know
unsure
this
like
know
don't
know
they
level
confidence
know
this
know
confidence
level
something
want
community
jump
confirm
there's
other
sources
this
something
don't
know
maybe
because
that's
kind
Twitter
right
someone
posts
something
right
instantly
in the
comments
people
start
giving
hive
mind
like
okay
this
wrong
because
this
this
right
because
this
right
we got
hands
jump
yeah
just
going
jump
like
trying
know
yeah
please
that's
goes
yeah
yeah
I love
everybody's
takes
know
always
like
ready
to hear
what
everybody
has to
like
pitch
about
TikTok
which
know
let's
get it
oxymoron
that
cybersecurity
master
student
have
super
large
following
TikTok
were
know
like
cancel
every
social
media
that
collecting
data
would
sitting
houses
corner
know
with
nothing
let's
past
that
right
it's
awesome
we'd
sitting
home
playing
yeah
yeah
exactly
guys
would
have
chickens
yeah
we'd
playing
with
chickens
know
that
great
thing
know
with
Wendy
well
TikTok
become
this
knowledge
brokering
like
beautiful
because
think
they
couldn't
catch
quickly
were
citizen
journalists
there
situation
capitol
won't
into
that
Taryn
knows
don't
talk
about
politics
will
that
there
were
live
streams
during
that
then
they
know
just
that
general
only
they
censor
little
almost
like
where's
line
because
somebody
starts
talking
about
crypto
TikTok
they're
very
careful
about
what
they
have
there's
more
eyeballs
there's
video
it's
like
million
views
only
that
because
funny
because
about
mining
crypto
with
graphics
card
people
talking
granted
kind
entertaining
because
just
this
funny
thing
like
people
were
like
that's
last
time
she's
going
to walk
many
people
were
arguing
about
he's
really
making
that
much
money
they
were
teaching
each
other
wasn't
you know
there
were
some
people
that
were
just
completely
belligerent
can't
away
from
that
think
with
this
type
social
media
especially
with
video
you're
creating
that
integrity
you know
doxed
as fuck
you see
my face
you hear
my voice
Wendy's
the same
thing
she's
definitely
not as
doxed
as me
have to
have
that
integrity
to be
able
to move
forward
there
something
just
feel
like
same
thing
with
like
with
Cointelegraph
they
didn't
come
back
fucked
fucked
like
they
doubled
down
fact
that
like
this
you know
it's
just
wild
that
that
caused
much
stuff
financially
when
other
you know
other
sources
like
TikTok
which
you know
been a
huge
source
entertainment
and education
for so
many
people
just gets
kind of
a bad
that
whole
idea
citizen
journalism
knowledge
brokering
it's
like
it's
really
it's
responsibility
right
thing
thought
that
hilarious
they
were
like
gaslighting
it's
like
it's
actually
reader's
fault
right
like
what
believe
like
complete
like
know
check
your
shit
before
wreck
yourself
right
like
need
take
responsibility
for what
you're
learning
what
you're
saying
that's
some
responsibility
right
there
that
caused
serious
market
issues
it's
just
wild
then
course
there
news
that
they
know
they
Rollbit
like
Rollbit
actually
trolled
them
believed
believed
don't
believe
anything
like
don't
trust
anything
Rollbit
made
screenshot
that
says
this
shows
like
them
putting
think
long
don't
know
something
where
they
a short
of the
market
short
yeah
it's
just
snowball
effect
sorry
what
they
clarify
here
yeah
Rollbit
what
is it
like
gaming
crypto
gaming
thing
where
betting
thing
it's
casino
yeah
it's
casino
they
came
to me
to do
TikTok
videos
about
them
and I
like
absolutely
they
they
they
created
screenshot
that
fake
that
said
this
meaning
Cointelegraph
that
that
Cointelegraph
placed a
I guess
Rollbit
knowing
that they
were going
move
market
because
this
false
tweet
then
that
caused
everyone
like
into
even
more
hysteria
again
believed
well
like
this
insanity
because
they
think
they
could
away
with
because
Rollbit
then
found
Rollbit
trolling
that
like
know
engagement
whatever
like
okay
there's
questions
then
like
okay
fake
anyways
the question
real
it's
just
like
hypothetically
would
that
there
there
inside
does
that
fall
under
inside
trading
does
like
news
publication
that
would
information
before
they
maybe
maybe
manipulation
though
it's
there
okay
going to
put out
this
article
believe
this
fake
obviously
it's
different
let's
just
there
some
news
real
publication
was about
to post
this
news
they
knew
that
could
move
market
they
made
personal
bets
market
that
problem
ethically
they
have
information
they
should
able
information
it's
them
benefit
from
that
alpha
they
found
info
don't
that
ethically
wrong
thing
information
true
they
didn't
article
someone
else
would
guess
don't
know
what
think
about
this
information
wasn't
just
saying
hypothetically
thing
publication
journalist
editor
these
make
bets
industry
before
they
depends
where
they
find
information
work
platform
tell
information
journalist
trade
that's
still
covered
under
insider
trading
also
it's
pretty
unethical
you're
street
heard
this
trade
then
might
unethical
it's
illegal
depends
whether
it's
privileged
information
or not
source
like
airtight
source
somebody
that
works
directly
with
company
some
connected
company
whatever
then
know
source
good
right
it's
like
could
considered
hearsay
it's
like
person
removed
then
don't
really
know
it's
true
that
doesn't
count
same
time
depends
like
hear
some
like
I'll
give
example
right
heard
something
space
with
hundred
listeners
traded
massive
market
moving
information
very
small
space
because
they
marketing
whatever
then
that's
kind
public
information
it's
broad
public
information
it's
like
they
put a
press
release
everybody
knows
it's
niche
public
information
hear
something
in a
telegram
group
example
as long
as it
doesn't
come from
actual
team
then
it's
kind
hearsay
it's
like
maybe
this
correct
information
even
though
you've
good
degree
confidence
that
comes
from
team
member
you're
team
know
information
then
that's
obviously
where you've
crossed the
line
basically
that's
how I
understand
there is
one more
aspect
to it
if I
depends
what
asset
as far
as I
know
depends
jurisdiction
that
with
stocks
then
it's
more
likely
that
it's
inside
information
classified
such
with
crypto
it's
regulated
there
there
actually
mentioned
this
there
was a
case
recently
where
a guy
Coinbase
touch
with
knew
when
project
going
listed
would
trade
Uniswap
token
tell
friends
family
token
then
they
would
list
everybody
knows
during
bull
Coinbase
listing
really
bullish
notice
it's
really
interesting
as well
like
before
those
listings
Coinbase
other
centralized
exchanges
there
often
pre-listing
pumps
then
people
would
kind
surmise
like
maybe
there's
listing
coming
obviously
know
like
people
finance
like
somebody
always
knows
that's
like
adage
like
someone
always
knows
when
there's
information
this
a lot
crypto
still
yeah
I think
like
ethics
are a
different
thing
right
because
at the
same
time
you're
trader
market
always
want
first
because
that's
most
return
your
make
most
profit
because
that's
what
you're
doing
you're
trader
it's
like
ethical
line
like
think
where
you're
getting
privileged
information
before
comes
really
fast
perhaps
know
information
ready
then
information
goes
public
smash
buttons
five
seconds
later
you're
that's
probably
fine
that was
actually
going to
be my
next
question
that
legal
know
information
you're
waiting
until
publicly
drops
second
drops
hour
whatever
you're
right
there
quick
swap
uniswap
something
you're
first
buyer
legally
don't
know
that's
maybe
question
lawyer
have
audience
that
would
really
useful
information
believe
case
it's
public
information
even
it's
instantaneously
basically
public
information
and you
trade
on it
then I
think
that's
still
okay
because
it's
still
technically
public
would
by the
nothing
anyone
here
says
legal
advice
guys
just
with
purple
logo
thank
disclaimer
we're
a bunch
dudes
ladies
on the
legal
stuff
and none
of us
lawyers
yeah
just
just
good
disclaimer
there
what I
also
found
interesting
about
this
particular
case
these
algorithmic
traders
that
react
news
right
because
usually
it's
that
fake
right
they
slaughtered
this
time
right
because
they
bought
automatically
based
trustworthy
account
if you
follow
that
twitter
account
example
would
high
probability
that
it's
correct
they
destroyed
this
yeah
found
that
interesting
because
I'm also
developing
trading
bots
and I
kind
haha
didn't
fall
that
just wanted
mention
that
how much
liquidated
Michael
when
said
something
million
sorry
it was
instead
let me
actually
where
that
so 46
was on
Binance
was on
Bybit
Huobi
and then
CoinX
pretty
decent
total
because
there's
a lot
more
exchanges
than
that
that's
just
like
main
ones
guess
yeah
that's
just
ones
like
look
sure
done
every
exchange
extent
guess
mean
think
about
think
about
also
decentralized
platforms
yeah
where
people
leverage
yeah
sure
probably
happened
some
small
extent
every
single
exchange
because
wouldn't
people
hear
this
news
a bunch
people
right
crypto
chick
had her
hand up
for a
while
maybe
should
down
it's
been
while
don't
know
they
died
just
wanted
jump
that
just
want
give
shout
amazing
people
that
putting
events
think
having
these
events
since
population
that
even
this
space
have
consider
half
those
just
investors
there's
only
many
people
that
truly
building
there's
things
that
wrong
still
have
real
solid
teams
behind
that
actually
join
events
show
introduce
themselves
that
actually
there
meet
person
feel
they
stuff
like
that
think
very
vital
preventing
corruption
through
media
love
that
well
getting
together
as a
community
great
nerd
your
hand
well
were
going
comment
coin
telegraph
stuff
yeah
what
really
wanted
know
we're
having
this
discussion
about
what's
legal
what's
moral
what's
ethical
realistically
when it
comes
like
media
don't
have
problem
with
this
just
think
that
it's
something
that
should
acknowledge
know
it's
that
like
discussions
ethics
morality
really
don't
even
belong
in the
conversation
with
with
discussions
media
know
what
media
ethically
responsible
what
media
morally
like
realistically
from
what
we've
seen
outside
crypto
within
crypto
just
think
that
these
conversations
that
need
separated
expand
that
yeah
we're
talking
about
hour
news
cycle
know
fast
pace
things
desire
always
conversations
know
what
media
ethically
responsible
well
media
what
people
want
people
want
news
stories
that
breaking
know
point
where
media
doesn't
have
time
check
their
sources
they
want
know
media
take
their
time
report
slowly
that
people
want
know
ethical
approach
we've
it's
been
proven
over
over
again
that's
case
that
what
they
want
sensational
because
media
really
just
driving
need
really
need
whether
people
want
admit
timeliness
edginess
know
really
shouldn't
conversation
about
ethics
morals
when
these
outlets
really
just
trying
keep
with
demand
well
guess
wanted
look
from
like
this
kind
goes
like
should
businesses
have
moral
know
duty
should
they
just
there
create
profit
it's
question
argue
that
having
good
ethics
similar
even
synonymous
with
like
running
a good
business
guess
would
argue
that
like
example
rush
market
don't
verify
then
you're
wrong
have
black
right
mean
Cointelegraph
they
have a
of a
black
from
this
right
people
will
less
likely
trust
crazy
news
that
comes
them
some
time
until
they've
kind
proven
redeemed
themselves
that
ethics
question
just
good
business
that's
the way
I look
at it
right
it's
just
going
continue
cause
problems
with
credibility
we've
seen
that
happens
Twitter
lose
credibility
then
lose
income
revenue
whatever
that
you're
doing
this
maybe
that
point
just
exit
stage
left
with
your
fucking
money
well
think
original
question
that
asked
transparency
crypto
media
liked
what
nerd
girl
just
touched
what
hearing
that
really
can't
have
that
because
they're
separate
things
because
arguing
that
have
have
morality
character
integrity
above
money
which
really
hard
come
these
spaces
really
hard
come
that's
know
kind
agree
with
nerd
girls
that
they
have
looked
separately
think
final
conclusion
aren't
going
have
that
transparency
because
people
truth
know
it's
they're
kind
enemy
lies
right
Taryn
kind
agree
with
that
sense
mission
that
original
question
have
more
transparency
really
until
know
know
which
can't
can't
because
guys
have
spoken
this
guys
have
said
won't
make
money
that's
people
here
make
money
gonna
argue
against
your
guys
point
your
guys
point
like
logically
kind
factually
it's
pretty
sound
guess
gonna
argue
that
when
things
ethically
when
with
like
dignity
when
follow
your
heart
being
kind
dorky
here
that
making
more
money
I've
said
this
quote
long
time
some
people
like
Jeff
Bezos
some
people
don't
this
comes
from
Jeff
Bezos
said
many
years
when
Amazon
acquiring
companies
they
likes
interview
they
acquire
a lot
companies
up to
like
plus
year
when
deciding
they
should
acquire
those
companies
interviews
tries
figure
they
missionary
mercenary
says
missionaries
people
have
these
grand
visions
they
want
change
world
they're
often
kind
nerdy
they're
less
driven
money
mercenaries
like
going
build
this
business
quickly
they
could
a bit
ruthless
cutthroat
they're
looking
their
strategies
like
when's
exit
you know
and I
exit
and I
something
else
don't
really
care
that
much
about
business
itself
says
great
paradox
that
missionaries
make
more
money
in the
generally
I've
ethics
question
business
sense
question
because
like
for me
right
thing
that
think
we'll
make
more
money
later
might
make
much
money
right
we'll
make
more
money
long
yeah
don't
know
that
jives
into
what
were
saying
sorry
what
want
sorry
what
want
here
rock
that
were
case
can't
even
tell
many
jobs
I've
been
fired
from
because
refused
what
they
wanted
which
like
just
many
places
longer
allowed
contribute
because
refused
like
party
line
that
doesn't
mean
that
making
more
money
than
when
working
them
when
we're
having
conversation
about
ethics
media
specifically
what
saying
like
can't
really
hold
those
together
mean
like
sometimes
you're
the company
that you
work for
wants you
to do
things
in a
certain
have
choice
right
then
things
that
paid
that
month
sometimes
you're
in a
position
where
maybe
people
those
positions
they
need
paycheck
every
month
every
weeks
whatever
don't
know
that's
yeah
this
fair
point
like
when
that's
said
don't
disagree
with
guys
understand
where
you're
coming
from
think
maybe
there's
another
think
that
like
good
clean
business
like
good
ethical
business
maybe
it's
because
ethics
maybe
it's
because
profit
yeah
at the
business
whether
it's
other
business
media
business
is there
to make
profit
think
like
just
stepping
back
thinking
okay
you're
publication
always
lean
when
have
options
buttons
front
let's
sensational
let's
news
before
confirm
let's
make
sure
fact
check
everything
that
it's
things
really
believe
we're
just
putting
stuff
just
controversial
clicks
that
think
like
yeah
might
really
well
short
term
know
picking
that
juicy
adrenaline
button
that
know
long
last
media
company
over
time
slowly
know
degrade
trust
that
community
don't
know
this
this
going
against
what
guys
saying
just
trying
think
different
ways
just
gonna
just
quickly
finish
thought
this
specific
thing
response
just
kind
piggybacking
what
nerd
girl
said
this
wasn't
crypto
started
trading
career
markets
over
counter
markets
which
actually
also
decentralized
market
when
first
offered
money
place
life
brand
single
went
from
being
stay
home
homeschooling
kids
thrown
into
workforce
vulnerable
been
workforce
long
started
trading
some
people
approach
will
this
kind
like
casting
couch
said
will
I'll
honest
really
hard
really
hard
because
needed
money
needed
feed
kids
like
nope
going
trust
process
going
able
sleep
tonight
even
though
going
watch
this
money
away
sure
enough
they
approached
another
made
like
three
million
dollars
within
like
it was
like
three
months
something
like
that
just
watched
this
person
succeed
doing
what
know
mission
know
obviously
there
world
there
complete
lack
morality
they
were
being
illegal
they
were
doing
things
they
weren't
supposed
doing
well
speaking
your
point
here
Rocky
like
months
they
being
charged
with
biggest
federal
investigation
markets
they
have
lost
credibility
they
aren't
allowed
trade
anymore
here
missed
money
think
there
something
to be
said
staying
course
being
somebody
that
ethics
know
loyalty
know
mind
conscious
integrity
yeah
make
three
million
dollars
within
three
months
that
that
story
still
trade
jail
didn't
have
feds
knocking
door
know
these
things
here
know
busting
building
know
providing
kids
yeah
we're
eating
lobster
every
week
know
we're
here
know
would
rather
personally
have
that
type
reputation
trust
process
that
know
kind
attract
people
those
types
people
when
operate
like
that
speak
kind
nerd
girl
know
listening
what
just
shared
totally
feel
that
part
those
those
hard
choices
know
that
have
make
sometimes
stand
morality
people
space
time
make
those
choices
know
could
jump
just
clarify
here
I've
worked
with
nerd
girl
many
years
think
that
like
give
opinion
she's
person
very
very
very
high
moral
standing
ethics
want
clear
here
that
don't
think
yeah
nerd
girl
explain
like
maybe
more
what
mean
like
directly
relates
media
want
make
clear
that
someone
that
really
acts
what
they
believe
stand
your
ideals
have
very
strong
moral
compass
just
there's
like
confusion
here
when
we're
debating
this
stuff
don't
think
your
argument
like
ethics
don't
matter
argument
that
holding
like
that
believing
that
media
some
ethical
moral
responsibility
consumers
part
problem
that
like
whole
what
need
stop
believing
that
there
discussion
ethics
morality
applies
media
that
they
going
apply
themselves
that's
speaking
member
media
right
like
saying
that
don't
things
with
like
with
integrity
saying
that
don't
certain
whatever
because
definitely
like
said
I've
been
fired
from
multiple
jobs
because
like
what
think
know
consumers
media
basically
just
stop
believing
that
media
some
moral
ethical
obligation
then
stop
believing
them
as a
result
that
like
kind
like
protecting
yourself
don't
fooled
into
thinking
that
they
take
everything
with
grain
salt
that's
saying
yeah
that
makes
sense
yeah
wanted to
add to
that
I fully
agree
because
market
regulates
itself
right
you're
media
outlet
that
does
shady
stuff
like
this
people
stop
reading
your
stuff
then
that's
fine
bankrupt
hopefully
there
always
people
that
will
never
really
their
research
they
will
fall
that
fine
know
market
like
market
also
nature
like
world
lets
whatever
want
want
fall
that
stuff
without
doing
your
research
fine
then
fall
cares
as long
it's
illegal
take
care
stuff
think
shouldn't
regulate
everything
should
make
sure
that
market
regulate
itself
some
companies
like
that
should
exist
anymore
stories
like
Nerd Girl
just
told
open
people's
eyes
that
doesn't
stuff
like
that
because
long
lose
anyway
again
just
have
years
that's
it's
just
unspoken
of the
universe
like
this
we're
talking
about
media
here
Lunar
Digital
Assets
which
marketing
incubation
firm
it's
also
held
true
where
know
we've
been
offered
tons
money
mean
it's
like
crazy
money
sometimes
know
incubate
project
generally
mean
year
could
hundreds
projects
that
come
foot
down
know
unless
know
project
looks
really
promising
know
they
have
something
going
themselves
don't
don't
touch
know
actually
turning
down
a lot
actually
decent
projects
it's
about
money
know
like
think
across
board
anything
your
life
really
holds
true
kind
uphold
good
standards
I'll
disagree
well
I don't
think
I don't
think
I know
how you
think
about
money
extent
it's
that
shouldn't
that
shouldn't
decision
maker
know
like
what
saying
know
2021
example
around
projects
approach
marketing
took
think
that
year
took
three
turned
down
these
projects
right
they
have
know
very
specific
parameters
have
really
believe
that
these
projects
will
that
they
have
least
very
high
chance
winning
then
money
weighs
into
that
course
yeah
don't
think
project
great
reputation
then
projects
don't
want
come
future
know
when
work
with
projects
believe
like
know
worked
with
Polygon
starting
five
years
basically
think
like
nine
members
they
like
members
time
they're
like
we're
only
like
they've
grown
much
faster
than
maybe
that's
because
don't
just
know
we're
very
careful
what
take
know
working
with
projects
like
Polygon
QuickSwap
Dogechain
yeah
think
like
we're
still
here
that's
it's
like
could
have
taken
these
remember
2018
bear
market
rough
were
company
time
started
2017
remember
rough
didn't
have
a lot
money
everybody's
payrolls
actually
months
took
then
once
started
having
a little
more
money
months
donated
half
other
team
members
just
motivate
people
remember
project
approaching
time
wanting
$30,000
month
give
some
token
percent
token
supply
hard
decision
because
were
newer
company
were
very
tight
money
project
just
shit
coin
didn't
believe
turned
down
which
really
hard
time
there
some
debate
team
whether
should
take
turned
down
actually
around
that
time
when
started
going
full
force
with
Matic
Polygon
that
like
going
comment
what
were
paid
anything
like
that
time
hard
decision
believed
Matic
then
later
going
quick
swap
these
things
that
believed
think
that
taking
less
money
doing
thing
that
believe
much
more
lasting
approach
mean
with
quick
swap
know
rare
kind
thing
that
know
project
gave
supply
community
co-founder
quick
swap
zero
advising
team
over
time
over
years
working
quarter
percent
co-founder
quick
swap
overtime
quarter
percent
that's
don't
that
this
industry
right
never
sold
single
those
taxes
that
income
people
stupid
doing
that
doing
that
community
believes
build
there's
always
money
just
think
that
doing
what
believe
this
space
going
farther
you're
going
last
longer
I've
seen
many
people
fall
this
industry
because
they
take
check
over
what
they
believe
used
Marines
biggest
quotes
that
they
that
trust
cannot
earned
second
part
also
have
nothing
left
word
which
means
that
your
word
your
last
dollar
terms
that's
what's
your
bank
whenever
companies
saying
let's
chill
this
project
pretty
sure
everyone
bunch
projects
come
them
chill
we'll
give
this
amount
dollars
everything
moral
ethical
portion
that
lower
your
credibility
no matter
what
market
you're
longer
have
value
within
that
industry
because
already
extracted
that
value
early
whenever
goes
into
bull
market
bear
market
going
believe
when
Cointelegraph
came out
with that
article
for a
while
like
your
credibility
here
there's
anyone
going
believe
your
credibility
company
have
staff
members
payroll
that
potentially
pushing
down
second
tier
third
tier
publication
because
fact
trust
trust
very
hard
into
space
especially
like
everyone
across
world
everyone
doesn't
understand
majority
things
blockchain
when
beginners
coming
they'll
maybe
look
some
previous
articles
everything
thing
about
you're
slowly
going
lose
core
community
that
been
there
through
bear
bull
you're
losing
your
core
base
you have
to do
market
push
back
back
tier
you're
spending
more
dollars
you're
spending
more
money
order
back
your
previous
position
basically
just
liquidated
yourself
damn
reason
just
placing
article
course
were
fired
from
a lot
publications
think
that
were
just
wrong
place
like
there
there's
also
like
story
this
giving
Supra
daughter
saying
sell
this
dealership
they're
like
well
it's
only
worth
$5,000
from
them
they
offer
about
$50,000
to $60,000
I didn't
understand
it was
because
you're
wrong
area
where
your
value
worth
paid
accordingly
other
companies
that
missed
sucks
suck
because
with
also
with
Crypto
I will
Crypto
were
physical
publications
it's
a little
different
we're
beholden
trying
crank
things
news
cycle
working
places
where
content
censored
it's
been
really
nice
with
Crypto
because
really
pretty
much
write
anything
even
other
editors
owners
magazines
disagree
it's
like
this
your
column
it's
your
opinion
that's
been
really
nice
then
working
also
like
that
where
it's
like
maybe
disagree
with
like
okay
this
your
department
you deal
you know
yeah
like
that's
best
thing
about
good
team
think
disagree
time
always
find
like
resolution
don't
censor
each
other
yeah
because
that's
about
trust
right
trust
actually
outweighs
what your
opinion
is going
to be
trust
kind
place
position
where
actually
trust
everything
then
she'll
doing
correctly
it's
more
accurate
it's
better
publication
it's
going
to be
better
media
compared
something
that
rushed
because
rushed
they're
just
pushing
through
motions
feel
like
a lot
companies
right now
are just
pushing
through
motions
with
their
media
they're
just
having
fact
check
having
these
things
then
they're
going
into
issues
where
it's
like
okay
cool
we went
fast
yeah
every
company
that
ever
went
fast
also
then
again
closed
a lot
their
stores
example
there's
Japanese
restaurant
called
Yukaku
they opened
up a thousand
locations
within two
years
next year
you know
what happens
700 locations
closed
so it's
like
you can
move
fast
you can
try to
grow
as fast
as you
you're
growing
correctly
you're
having
proper
training
proper
engines
in there
to make
sure
that
intern
able
post
about
then
you have
I've
seen
this
much
much
crypto
because
industry
moves
fast
because
there's
a lack
infrastructure
I don't
know if
I should
give
examples
I don't
want to
bad mouth
people
there's
okay
I see
this
with
marketing
companies
a lot
of the
marketing
companies
that were
around
when LDA
first
started
gone
they're
almost
gone
actually
I've
seen
multiple
companies
that
they
take
many
clients
like
many
companies
it doesn't
matter
what
project
you are
you'll
they'll
take
client
saying
that's
like
worst
thing
world
I've
watched
crush
companies
because
they
expand
fast
they
dilute
their
value
they
stop
being
good
clients
like
there's
many
auditing
firms
this
huge
thing
going
name
know
feel
like
Certic
Certic
was the
gold
standard
right
you had
coin
market
logo
if you
were
audited
Certic
Certic
is not
seen
as a
tier
auditor
anymore
they're
definitely
not the
best
and I'm
sorry
to say
that
Certic
you guys
great
stuff
at one
point
they
just
they
took
many
clients
fast
quick swap
has paid
hundreds
thousands
dollars
single
audits
it's
crazy
market
there's
a lot
more
auditors
costs
have
leveled
a lot
more
it's
a lot
more
fair
when
you know
audits
when
hacks
were
rampant
audits
were
a big
requirement
of any
project
succeed
or have
trust
community
there
weren't
that
many
auditing
companies
a lot
these
auditing
companies
grew
fast
took
client
that
would
come
them
they
paid
them
right
amount
money
then
they
diluted
their
service
they
started
giving
reports
loose
audits
lots
hacks
resulted
saying
saying
directly
that
lots
hacks
resulted
because
Certic
there
were
some
though
yeah
so I
think
diluting
your
brand
expanding
fast
is a
problem
this
industry
I've
seen
happen
with
legal
teams
I've
seen
happen
with
auditors
marketing
development
houses
co's
builders
happens
because
industry
expanding
fast
tempting
just
take
everything
that
comes
your
you're
reminding
black
hearted
bouncer
right
can I
some
positivity
yeah
I fully
agree
with
rock
by the
let's
Aztec
finish
he's
giving
shout
Marshall
can you
hear me
Michael
sometimes
I think
Michael
one of
you is
rugged
Michael
can't
hear
Aztec
I just
got back
I don't
think
it's
I hope
it's
because
I got
rugged
twice
already
anyways
yeah
dark
hearted
bouncer
Marshall
he always
says
move
slow
don't
make
rapid
changes
I think
he even
brings it
back to
a Buddhist
type
principle
you just
reminded
me of
Marshall
a lot
of that
to put
in context
maybe
interesting
for the
audiences
it's about
this show
when he's
saying that
stuff
as this
show
is growing
and it's
been getting
larger and
larger
and we're
having huge
speakers on
regularly
lots of
the team
is discussing
do we
I don't
want to
say all
the ideas
because I
don't want
to give
them out
to our
competitors
but there's
a lot of
ideas we
have for
this show
to expand
make it
bigger
broaden
the audience
and things
like that
and we're
torn with
we have a
recipe that
really works
here
many people
tell us
it's the
most entertaining
spaces
they go to
in the
industry
we get
that all
the time
we get
people
complaining
about other
spaces
they go
and you
know how
they treat
them
and you
know they
like the
the smooth
the open
flow of
this show
that it's
not scripted
it's very
open we
allow people
to say
their speak
their minds
and we cross
even some
some lines
that maybe
other people
wouldn't be
comfortable
crossing but
we do it
in the
you know
effort of
like transparency
and stuff
but anyways
we have to be
careful we
don't want to
we don't want to
change too
much too fast
because we could
lose that
magic he
always relates
it he's
he he comes
from a metal
band in the
music world
so he always
relates it to
like you know
bands that
kind of sold
out or bands
that changed
their strategy
over time
to like you
know because
they wanted to
go more
mainstream and
you know we're
always cautioning
against hey
let's like not
change the
the heart of
this show
but you know
we do have to
experiment with
new things
and evolve
right
good times
yeah good
shout out
for Marshall
there
I know
Michael was
going to
bring some
positivity
so I
wanted to
hear what
he was
going to
yeah
Michael
Dapradar
but yeah
go ahead
you were
going to
let's see
can I see
some emojis
can you
hear me
guys
I can
okay
nice
I want to
add some
positivity
because we
talked about
all the
things that
resulted from
the wrong
reporting of
the ETF
listing
all the
negative
stuff
but there
for me
personally
some
positive
things
to draw
from that
right
because we
need to
evolve
so first
thing
I cleaned
out who
I follow
on Twitter
because there
were some
people just
you know
posting it
without
questioning
without even
an ounce
of doubt
right that
this is the
truth
so I cleaned
them out
so I
you know
like basically
I have to
vote with my
time so I
wouldn't give
them my
attention anymore
and the other
thing is that I
believe and
that's again
personal opinion
this pump
dragged Bitcoin
into the
next phase of
the bull market
in my opinion
let's see if
that's true
or not
so for me
it kind of
paid off
because this
pump has
generated some
profits not
just for me
hopefully right
hopefully for
other people
as well but
also it looks
ultra bullish
if I look at
the chart
so I you
know for
kind of
but it was
two different
pumps right
I mean there
was the fake
pump and now
the somewhat
I mean the
second one
no I mean the
second one
exactly because
now everyone
has eyes on
it because it
was reported
everywhere right
even in the
traditional media
and it kind
of helps
the price
right in
general so
yeah it's
wrong news
I get it
but overall it
kind of stuck
with people
and they say
okay it was
wrong but how
long would it
take for the
real approval
okay two or
three months
fine let's buy
now so I
mean for me
it's a positive
outcome I'm just
saying right
I benefit from
that and I hope
everyone else does
as well
so yeah that's
the positive
things I see
do you see
some other
positive things
from that
well I'll
let anyone
jump in here
but I do
want to say
I know this
space has been
like we're
doing a lot
of criticism
it might not
feel very
positive like
many of our
spaces but I
knew this would
this space was
going to be like
this because it's
a it's an
important topic I
mean when you
have things like
you know look
Elon the richest
man in the world
spent a lot of
his wealth to
buy Twitter
because of the
censorship and
the kind of
corruption that he
thought was
happening there
and you have
like I think
I think trust in
traditional media
is at all time
lows people do
not trust
publications anymore
they know that
there's always a
strong slant or
bias maybe I
shouldn't say
always but there's
a lot oftentimes
a very strong
bias towards you
know a lot of
time it's political
bias and maybe
there's money being
you know greasing
the wheels on the
back and we
should talk about
that actually at
some point but
yeah I mean this
is a deep topic
and it's a
problem in the
world and I
think social
media and like
things like fast
hive minded
news like you
know on Twitter
Reddit TikTok
even Instagram
has really helped
us to get
better information
and not just have
to trust one
source like you
used to have to
tune into your
evening news right
to get your
information and
that was like
going directly
from the top
down now we
have from the
bottom up
reporting so
it is a it's a
it's a sensitive
topic it's a deep
topic it's there's
a lot of
corruption and it
is something that
I think is really
important for us to
talk about so
apologize maybe this
space hasn't been
the most you know
happy fluffy ponies
you know that we
we like to be as
optimists but it's
important to talk
about I have other
questions I can bring
up also just to
kind of change
the vibe and also
do you remember
that Larry Fink
was on TV
afterwards right
they asked him
about what
happened and this
would not have
happened this
interview wouldn't
have happened if
you know the pump
wasn't there and
the guy went there
and said what that
it's a flight to
quality come on
guys if that's not
bullish I don't
know what was
this flight to
quality like Larry
Fink went on TV
they interviewed him
what was it CNN
I don't know some
Bloomberg stuff and
they interviewed him
about what happened
there are you really
approved or not with
this ETF right and
then he gave a
statement an official
one about now we're
not yet approved but
but he understands the
pump because crypto is a
flight to quality and
he understands that in
turmoil and the world
is you know not very
stable right now due to
the war and other
things that he totally
understands kind of
right that people are
flocking into that
industry he didn't say
Bitcoin he said crypto
I mean I guess he means
Bitcoin because that's
what's all about but he
didn't say specifically
but I mean for me there
was super bullish
interview right like I
think I think this
this resonated outside
of our bubble right
which is why I'm saying
that it dragged Bitcoin
into the next phase of
the bull market which
for me is a positive
consequence of this
hey we're gonna rug
Michael real quick and
then bring him right
back up
I'm gonna drop you for
a second just so you
can hear Aztec again
just real quick on that
I think the reason why
he was saying crypto as
well is because he can't
because they have
pending ETF he can't
sort of pump his own
bags in that sense by
saying a specific
crypto but I think you
know it's clear it's
been clear for a while
that Larry Fink is
pretty bullish and it's
crazy really to have
come this far because
you know for like many
many years people like
Jamie Dimon and others
like high profile
traditional finance guys
have you know Warren
Buffett Charlie Munger
I've always called crypto
kind of Ponzi scam you
know various different
derogatory terms and so
to hear like the head of
one of these massive
institutions calling it a
quality asset is just
absolutely mind-blowing to
you know if you've been
in this space a while to
it's like it's really a
manifestation of that
phrase you know I think
it's like a firstly laugh
at you then they fight you
then you win or something
like that is like really
really interesting time to be
in the space because
finally you know we've
kind of got our way
through force of will
through psychotic
hodling through the ups
and downs this like crazy
gang of misfit coders
have managed to upend
the sort of traditional
financial markets and now
they're all launching
products ETF products
based on what what the
fact that we managed to
hold on for so long
basically so congratulations
to everybody that's been
a part of that if you've
ever held a Bitcoin or
part of a Bitcoin and
you've held it
psychotically and you've
never sold even though
it's been smashed to bits
well done give hearts for
that statement yeah it's
funny we see this so often
in crypto where people who
are enemies of Bitcoin
become friends and crypto
in general Web3 etc it's
funny like you know a good
example this is Jay Clayton
he was the head of the SEC
before Gary Gensler and he
was seen as a total enemy
of our entire industry
people thought you know he
was his mission was to
take us down and now it's
crazy that Gary's way worse
to us which odd to see that
when they're you know it's
so it seems so clear that
there's some kind of bias or
corruption or someone telling
them what to do because when
you have Gary Gensler when he
was at MIT I watched all his
all of his Bitcoin and
crypto courses and he was I
was like so excited I was
telling my mom I was telling
my dad I was telling all my
friends oh my god it's gonna
be so good when this guy
Gary he's such a crypto
friendly person he under he
really understands this stuff
when he comes it's gonna be
the best thing for us this is
one of the things been
holding us back is that this
current damn SEC chairman you
know Jay Clayton is such a
bad guy towards crypto and so
biased and then what you see
is when when and then Jay
Clayton was you know really
hard on us and then so okay
Gary pro Bitcoin when he's in
crypto when he's pre SEC once
he becomes SEC he's he's the
worst guy in the world for us
almost right and then you Jay
Clayton enemy of us well he's
SEC chairman and then when he
leaves being SEC chairman now
he's on stage talking about how
innovative this space is and
how great it is and how stable
coins can revolutionize things
and how he thinks that Gary is
way too harsh on crypto it's
like wait what is happening
this is like bizarro world
there's some there's something
happening here there's some
corruption or there is some
top-down maybe it's Biden's
administration telling you know
Gary or you know Elizabeth
Warren telling Gary hey you
better like attack these people
because we don't like it there's
something happening because that
is not a coincidence it's not
like the second you get the
wands to the staff to become the
head of the SEC you just your
brain switches and you're like
it's like stranger things you're
like a you're like one of the
monsters now like what is
happening well well remember
though like it's important to
separate like intellectually to
separate the man from the role
right so like as the SEC so
forget about Gary Gensler and
Gary Gensler's actual views the
SEC chairman one of its main man
one of the mandate of that
person the reason that person has a
job is to maintain market
stability and to prevent
anything drastic upending the
financial markets crypto is like
a torpedo to the financial
markets so in his role as SEC
chairman he might be trying to
slow the process down as much as
possible so that that transition
however revolutionary it might end
up being is an orderly one and one
that people can adjust to so that
people don't lose their shit if you
apologize apologize for my language
but yeah so that people don't lose
their mind and when that happens in
like you know because if if go if
if left unchecked it could be end up
with one of those things where it's
like you know people wake up and
overnight the dollar's lost 90% of
its purchasing power bitcoins at 250k
securities are moving on to the
blockchain and like your grandma can't
cope with that right so the way that
the SEC has to operate is this really
really cautious kind of adversarial
approach and then hopefully the
innovative people in the financial
sector and the decentralized financial
sector like us will come together
and work around those very stringent
frameworks and get the same innovation
to where it needs to be it's just a
lot slower but then Gary might leave
his post and be like yeah you know
crypto is great I'm very pro Bitcoin
blah blah blah store of value flight to
quality because he's not once he's not
in the post he's not got responsibility
for the SEC so but also he's a guy
that we all kind of love to hate
because you know kind of looks a bit
wormish and it's like kind of nasty
sometimes so he's a good boogeyman for
us right now but I think I wouldn't be
surprised if when he leaves role he does
like advisor shapes and speaking gigs
where he ends up being quite pro crypto
having worked all this out good points
Jack I do want to shout out that Luke
is on the stage hey brother hey good
morning or evening where we are yeah I
just just wanted to ask just imagine if
you're the intern of coin telegraph and
realize what power you have like you sit
there in front of the computer and
realize oh if I post something I make a
long before that how much money he could
make like I would like to be an intern
from coin telegraph I think that's a
strategy that I'm focusing on right now
that I get to that position I get access
on their social media just to post
something I think that's completely
forbidden
oh that's a recorded space right oh shit
but yeah don't tell anyone please and
yeah adding on to what rock said
rock rock rock sorry I really like the
space and as you say like this free
flowing thing that you have over here
really love that and if you ever want to
have a complete gaming space like with
lots of cool games let me know we can
make that happen and combine it with
ours and Darren almost made it to be our
co-host last week or this week anyway
because Twitter rocked us I'm not sure
how this one worked over here so far I
saw it started later and everything but
yeah Twitter lately gives me a lot of
headache here but yeah if you want to do
that and then maybe combine it what I
would like to see I saw recently often
that you can combine Twitter spaces with
live streams that's what I want to try
out like you have a couple of people
sitting around on the Twitch stream maybe
and stream it new for no futuristic is
he here no I don't see him but he he does
that often he sits in spaces in front of
his computer and then shows some visuals
on the side so you could watch it or
even live stream it directly on Twitter
while sitting in the show and being in
the Twitter space so if you want to try
that out yeah let me know then I I'm
happy to support as well yeah that was
more of a hostile takeover of your space
that's sort of just asserted the power I
seen I seen you disappear for a second and
I took the opportunity yeah I saw that I
saw that but thanks yeah you always show up
that's great love it I'd show up more
often if it wasn't at 4 a.m. in the
morning brother but it would be awesome
to have like a cross collaboration with
our spaces and we do like gaming and
metaverse as well so that'd be awesome
bro we should get rocked I think these
spaces as well just get like proof of
walk yeah can I can I throw out can I
throw out a comment about that you guys
this is really exciting it's it's not
about like the media or anything like
that but I'm actually like working
towards doing a gaming a blockchain web
three gaming competition in real life in
December so if there's any gaming
companies that might want to you know be
a part of that definitely hit me up so
we're trying to throw together a massive
thing so people can visually see you know
how these games work and have some fun in
Miami that sounds really cool I want to
know more crypto chick I know Luke is a
great person to speak to I mean he's
from medieval empires and I mean we all
know a bunch of games as well building on
polygon immutable so we'll have to talk
offline yeah definitely and while I'm here
again I just I wanted to say this before a
little while ago as just my thoughts on
integrity and stuff like that you know I've
been in the space for a while crypto mag
launched last year and because of who the
founders are because of who our CEO is and
because of the integrity that he has and
because he will not just accept just
anybody it is not about the money you know
we do our advertising like at cost we
break even to help the space and
everything so because of who he is is why
I came on board because that's who I am
you know and I will not forget the day
that nerd girl came on board and I won't
forget you know what he said to me and
who she was and what she was all about and
it was because of who she was and her
integrity that she had and why he wanted
to bring her on board so I do think and
we're we're here to stay we're here to
grow we're not gonna stop you know and
and we definitely want you know people
that are reading our magazine to have
real good information have a trustworthy
platform that they can go to and not go
through that loss of integrity that some
other people do
oh shout out to Nathan Hill
yeah shout out to you guys I love your
sorry Nathan was gonna try to be here
go ahead I think it's late I was just
gonna say Nathan was gonna try to be
here but I think it's late there for him
that's all all good all good yeah I mean
the I'm looking at the crypto mag we had
the polygon version come out I think it
was like months ago and I still have my
mag so I love what you guys are doing in
the space and and the content you guys
are producing and you've written for
crypto mag too I think we put Aztec
articles in in the poly I have for the
polygon edition only yes yeah I was glad to
to write for this one specifically
especially because obviously I'm a huge
fan of polygon but I've always thought of
writing more so that's another thing I got
to talk to you guys about in the future
but overall I think we're coming kind of
to the top of the hour here guys it's
been a amazing space it was a it was very
interesting I think like Rock was saying
you know there's it wasn't the most
fluffy ponies kind of space but it was
good a lot of important topics were
talked about the beginning of the space
you know we had the pole upgrade and
talked about the the governance type
things that polygon is doing so we've had
a very interesting space today great
conversation we should we I don't know
if we should open a can of worms and you
know then we'll be like 10 minutes late
again crypto chick I see your hand up go
ahead yeah okay so I just want to give a
little bit of my insights the way that I
look at things is that we're coming up on
2024 guys the having is coming up we're in
the last quarter you know companies are
looking you know just from some of the
people that I know you know some of the
top broker firms and stuff here in the USA
shout out to exemplar you know they don't
look for the top fortune 1000 companies
they look for pure innovation and I think
during this downtime that we've had there's
been massive building going on you know
we've been through we've been through a
lot of you know initial funding rounds in
the past you know and I think there's a lot
of companies that they didn't rug you know
they continued building and stuff like that
so those companies that are building they
are getting eyes on them you know and I
have noticed also there's a lot of
different companies in the space that are
starting to like back their companies by
gold you know which I think is really
important and stuff like that so yeah I
think that we are going to be headed into a
great year for 2024 honestly in my opinion
That was actually going to be one of my
questions at one point we didn't quite make
it to that but I was wondering you know are
we really ready for what's coming you know
the media our KOL is like it's the whole
space is going to grow so fast you know if
you if the ETFs launch and regulation starts
getting passed and you know the money is
just flowing back into the space at a much
you know more rapid pace I mean this this is
just a very small taste of what could come
in the future and I wonder if we're ready
for you know have we really laid the
infrastructure and are we ready for this
massive growth I'm ready two years of a
bear bro we were ready I you know I said
I said this to to one of our team members
over at quick swap yesterday I said man
it's it's crazy you know we've seen so many
companies projects people like exiting the
industry or you know becoming insolvent running
out of money you know not finding ways to make
like you know real pause profitable
businesses or even projects that are like
decentralized projects that are sustainable
and so it's if you're still here if you're
still alive you know even if you're just barely
hobbling along trying to make it to the the
bull run you're in a good place because I
think probably 80 percent of projects have
stopped really maintaining or growing or
developing or doing new things probably 80
percent of the companies in crypto have
fallen off we see this every this is my
third bear market so every every bear market
we see this and it it really cleanses the land
of the the the kind of shitty people the shit
coiners the people that are just doing you
know just money grabbers and people just maybe
they're passionate but they don't have good
business models you know and so that cleansing
is really good for the people who survive because
then when when the valve opens up and the
floodgate turns on you're there to you know
benefit from that so I think right now it's
like you're swimming through mud you know
like imagine you're in a pool and we're
swimming through mud for the last two years
and you know we're almost to the point where
we get into the regular water and we can
swim and not not only that we have like
fins on because it's a bull run
so just just know if you're here you're
surviving if you make it to the the bull run
you know not financial advice of course but
you know it's going to be it's going to be
great for everyone I you know we've all if
you've seen this before if it's anything like
the last bull runs it's going to be great for
everyone especially those who've built with
integrity and are around still okay we got to
run guys for the next spaces so if anyone
wants to jump over there we would love to
have you including any speakers want to jump
on and comment there join us guys join us we
have like loads of fun and it's slightly less
formal and slightly less speakers but you know
you'll have a good time come over we talk a
lot about macro a lot about philosophy a lot
about sociology a lot about history of money
gets like maybe slightly political at times
with views from all sides yeah so we're going to
go into that let's people just quickly say bye
like in like 15 seconds so we're not we're
always late to that one I always feel bad but
yeah dose chain is up is in the midst of a
discussion to move from polygon edge to
polygon zk evm so really cool stuff yeah I
would love to have everyone over there and we
can continue this fun conversation we'll
probably talk a little bit about what we've
been talking about here we'll probably carry
on this conversation a bit but yeah if
everyone wants to say bye go ahead we can
start I see Luke joined I didn't even hear
from him but next time I suppose oh you
heard do you want to say I talked a couple
of sentences even gave you a shout out
for oh sorry I was probably where I was
probably working on something sorry hey
man I said we can join forces on spaces
and stuff like this but yeah oh I yeah I
heard you guys saying something and I
wasn't listening I'm sorry yeah I would
love to man absolutely would love yeah
yeah just a quick shout out then as well
to gamers GG they have an award coming up
where you can vote for cool games if you're
interested I pinned it up top you can vote
for medieval empires if you want to and
yeah I think quick swap is now place two
after the space on super space so congrats to
that you passed us again and yeah have a good
one guys thank you yeah that's worth say
quickly just saying yeah we're if you guys
look on super spaces quick swap has been
like we climbed we were like number 20 and
then number 11 the number like 7 4 3 and now
we're going back and forth between two and
spots two and three I don't know all the
metrics they use but as this is like all
Twitter spaces in the world not I think it's
not just crypto including Mario and the
falls two spaces so one of his spaces
and we're now yeah we've now topped his
round table so his crypto one is ranked higher
than us which is the crypto town hall I think and
then his round table one which is more
general you know he had like 12,000
listeners talk when the Israel you know
bombing stuff was happening so we've
actually pat we've been going back and
forth with him for put number two space in
the world all all Twitter spaces in the
world guys so congratulations thanks to
everyone in the audience for making that
possible with all the support the
attendance the emojis the comments we
really appreciate retweeting we
appreciate you guys all okay 10 seconds if
we could just say everyone say bye and
then we're gonna move to the next space
and we can continue there I go from the
operator has a hand up yeah I will I
will respect that 10 seconds first of
all I really like when the space is not
all hunky-dory but honest and open and
covering everything no matter if it's
positive or not so I love that let's
continue also I want to leave you with
something to think about so that you
don't lose money Bitcoin ETF might come
might not come they might still rug us
okay they I mean listen they can still
reject it and approve it two months
later you lose your money so still take
care but I'm super bullish and I can't
wait for 2024 and the having so yeah
guys that's me see you next time bye
bye nice who else who else wants to say
thank you everyone yeah thank you
everyone I want to say goodbye and I
want to say don't forget all roads lead
to polygon and also I want to give a
shout out to crypto street squad if you
guys aren't in crypto street squad there
are some massive researchers in there you
can get tons of research 24 hours a day so
you can always find that on my link tree
and go join up there and I will join you
guys over in the next space love and peace
yeah thanks for shouting them out I don't
if people don't know they're actually
there every day 365 days a year in that
telegram chat hanging out sharing alpha
talking I mean it's it's such a a great
chat to be in a hundred percent and I that
is that's my home I haven't been there in
a while because I've been working on lots
of events I've been doing a lot of building
myself and stuff like that I used to be
there like every single day I'll be back
you know to bring lots of alpha that way
when the time is right but I definitely
you know scroll through and see what
everybody's posting and check up on it
and everything so you guys might want to
do that too so genius guys in there along
with all of you so love and peace much
love much love yeah anyone else want to
say goodbye the DJ boy is out I am
currently hacking a FPS game that is on web
three I will let the developers know
before they get fucked and just to make
sure that it's gonna be a better space
that's what I what I'm trying to do is
just use my use my black hat skills for
for good now and just trying to clean up
the space and make sure that they're not
going to go into public release with this
information so I'm currently talking to
the devs to make sure that they fix this
all right well I'll say bye and Aztec we
should both say bye because Cindy was
telling me the other day she listened
sometimes and she was like wait you guys
introduce everyone you never introduce
yourselves so I guess I'll say bye yeah
I'm rock co-founder quick slop CEO of
lunar digital assets and a core contributor
of those chain thanks guys so much for
coming good times yeah listening put me for
the one piece cast please they couldn't
get the negotiations it came out it's
it's already out the first seasons out
they're making a second season she's
really bummed I'm bummed because it is
like the best anime live-action remake
ever done I think so we haven't even
we haven't even talked about this rock
but I finally want one piece so nice but
yeah I think it's incredible I think
they did a really good job in some
aspects it's better than the anime I
know that's blasphemy but she has
bleach I will be hit the guy yeah no she
just got she did cowboy bebop which was
with the same team that did one piece
but unfortunately they always have
negotiations for one piece done she does
casting for those who don't know yeah
she they hire all the actors and
actresses okay got to run guys see y'all
later have a good one guys bye-bye see
you on those chain come over at those
chain family see you guys
